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knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

11K views 16 replies 0 participants last post by  dmac 
G
#1 ·
I recently had to replace the intake on my 97 crown vic. while doing that I noticed there was NO knock sensor in the valley. there was a spot that looked like it should be machined out to have one, but nothing there. also were no wires leading into the valley, I was concerned that it might be in the rear of valley so I looked for wires. only thing there was the coolant tube and there was nothing under that also.

My question is where else would it be, the dealer I bought it off (Ford) could not find any manual reference stating any other location for it.


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Dave MacLeod
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dmacleo@midmaine1.com
 
G
#3 ·
"dmac" <dmacleo@midmaine1.com> wrote in message news:1124586188_351@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
I recently had to replace the intake on my 97 crown vic. while doing that I noticed there was NO knock sensor in the valley. there was a spot that looked like it should be machined out to have one, but nothing there. also were no wires leading into the valley, I was concerned that it might be in the rear of valley so I looked for wires. only thing there was the coolant tube and there was nothing under that also.

My question is where else would it be, the dealer I bought it off (Ford) could not find any manual reference stating any other location for it.


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Dave MacLeod
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dmacleo@midmaine1.com

Is it pinging/knocking? If so clean the MAF and change the fuel filter. If not, you worry to much :)
 
G
#4 ·
I was wondering if this was the case. thanks


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"Happy Traveler" <happy_traveler@abc.net> wrote in message
news:Y96dnQhA5_VhnJXeRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> To the best of my knowledge, there is no knock sensor in the 97 CV; at
> least
> not in the civilian version.
>
>




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G
#5 ·
I am getting spark knock. cleaning MAF did not help. ECT, ACT, EGR, Fuel pressure all good. I will try colder plug next, hot and humid weather is the worst and gas grade makes little difference.
thanks


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Dave MacLeod
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dmacleo@midmaine1.com
"Shoe Salesman" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message news:wYVNe.5034$UE2.2531@tornado.socal.rr.com...

"dmac" <dmacleo@midmaine1.com> wrote in message news:1124586188_351@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
I recently had to replace the intake on my 97 crown vic. while doing that I noticed there was NO knock sensor in the valley. there was a spot that looked like it should be machined out to have one, but nothing there. also were no wires leading into the valley, I was concerned that it might be in the rear of valley so I looked for wires. only thing there was the coolant tube and there was nothing under that also.

My question is where else would it be, the dealer I bought it off (Ford) could not find any manual reference stating any other location for it.


--
Dave MacLeod
remove the "1" to reply
dmacleo@midmaine1.com

Is it pinging/knocking? If so clean the MAF and change the fuel filter. If not, you worry to much :)
 
G
#6 ·
I've been getting spark knock on my '95 and have done all the usual things,
like you. I am beginning to think my belt drive radiator fan (this car has
both electric and belt driven) has a bad clutch. I never hear the fan roar
anymore and the outdoor temp gauge used to be stable, now it changes a lot
depending moving or stopped for a lite. It is most noticeable when the car
is warmed up. Water temp gauge never goes above half, but I am not sure it
is linear.

Good luck! Let us know what fixes it, please!

PoD




"dmac" <dmacleo@midmaine1.com> wrote in message
news:1124645781_111@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
I am getting spark knock. cleaning MAF did not help. ECT, ACT, EGR, Fuel
pressure all good. I will try colder plug next, hot and humid weather is the
worst and gas grade makes little difference.
thanks


--
Dave MacLeod
remove the "1" to reply
dmacleo@midmaine1.com
"Shoe Salesman" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:wYVNe.5034$UE2.2531@tornado.socal.rr.com...

"dmac" <dmacleo@midmaine1.com> wrote in message
news:1124586188_351@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
I recently had to replace the intake on my 97 crown vic. while doing that I
noticed there was NO knock sensor in the valley. there was a spot that
looked like it should be machined out to have one, but nothing there. also
were no wires leading into the valley, I was concerned that it might be in
the rear of valley so I looked for wires. only thing there was the coolant
tube and there was nothing under that also.

My question is where else would it be, the dealer I bought it off (Ford)
could not find any manual reference stating any other location for it.


--
Dave MacLeod
remove the "1" to reply
dmacleo@midmaine1.com

Is it pinging/knocking? If so clean the MAF and change the fuel filter. If
not, you worry to much :)
 
G
#7 ·
"dmac" <dmacleo@midmaine1.com> wrote in
news:1124645781_111@spool6-east.superfeed.net:

> I am getting spark knock. cleaning MAF did not help. ECT, ACT, EGR,
> Fuel pressure all good. I will try colder plug next, hot and humid
> weather is the worst and gas grade makes little difference. thanks
>
>


The colder plug might help.. but...Sounds a lot like Combustion chamber
carbon buildup to me...

Do you ever let that horsie run? Or do you always drive it conservatively?

And what brand of gas do you use?

You might ask your local law enforcement person if they have that problem
and what brand they use.
 
G
#8 ·
FIXED-Re: knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

replacing MAF fixed it. tried cleaning again yesterday and got better
results that lasted 1 day. so I replaced it today, no knock, more power, and
I expect it will slightly help mileage.

as far as gas, all brands and grades were doing it and this horsie runs a
lot. that's why I was so concerned about the knock. the knock started about
a year after I got the vehicle so I had a baseline to work from there.
when I had replaced intake I checked egr passages on old manifold and they
were clean, so of course new one was. I used that to rule out the egr
system. I changed plugs about 3 months ago and even with 50K on them
(original per previous (initial) owner) so I had to guess (correctly
luckily) that chamber was not in to bad shape as far as carbon. previous
owner also got into it at least once a week. I had checked with the dealer
that services local sheriff vehicles, they are all 99 and up and had knock
sensors, I figured I could not use anything from them as a baseline.

I had suspected MAF was the problem but I needed to rule out the other 5 or
6 systems that could also affect this, the biggest obstacle was determining
if it was supposed to have the knock sensor or not.

Thanks all


--
Dave MacLeod
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dmacleo@midmaine1.com
"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96B9A88EC2E5Bpettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
> "dmac" <dmacleo@midmaine1.com> wrote in
> news:1124645781_111@spool6-east.superfeed.net:
>
>> I am getting spark knock. cleaning MAF did not help. ECT, ACT, EGR,
>> Fuel pressure all good. I will try colder plug next, hot and humid
>> weather is the worst and gas grade makes little difference. thanks
>>
>>

>
> The colder plug might help.. but...Sounds a lot like Combustion chamber
> carbon buildup to me...
>
> Do you ever let that horsie run? Or do you always drive it
> conservatively?
>
> And what brand of gas do you use?
>
> You might ask your local law enforcement person if they have that problem
> and what brand they use.




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G
#9 ·
I'm not sure, but I would think that might affect it due to heat on the
front intake runner. no matter what it probably should be fixed though. I
also have belt driven as well as electric for the AC. let it idle for about
1/2 hr and fan should turn on during that time, I had to do it this way
because I was never able to hear the fan, I do mostly interstate driving.

did you also check fuel pressure and pressure regulator? I have been told
its one of the items commonly overlooked when diagnosing this issue.

I double checked mine today before buying the new MAF and key on engine off
pressure was 35psi, key on engine running at idle was 30psi and open
throttle while running was 40psi. disconnecting pressure regulator at idle
was 40psi and did bog the engine slightly. also tested pump check valve,
turn key on, waited 10 seconds, then key off and it held the 35psi for 30
minutes with no drop.


--
Dave MacLeod
remove the "1" to reply
dmacleo@midmaine1.com
"Paul of Dayton" <F_and_P@NOSPAMameritech.net> wrote in message
news:115Oe.367$eQ.364@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> I've been getting spark knock on my '95 and have done all the usual
> things, like you. I am beginning to think my belt drive radiator fan
> (this car has both electric and belt driven) has a bad clutch. I never
> hear the fan roar anymore and the outdoor temp gauge used to be stable,
> now it changes a lot depending moving or stopped for a lite. It is most
> noticeable when the car is warmed up. Water temp gauge never goes above
> half, but I am not sure it is linear.
>
> Good luck! Let us know what fixes it, please!
>
> PoD
>
>
>
>
> "dmac" <dmacleo@midmaine1.com> wrote in message
> news:1124645781_111@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
> I am getting spark knock. cleaning MAF did not help. ECT, ACT, EGR, Fuel
> pressure all good. I will try colder plug next, hot and humid weather is
> the worst and gas grade makes little difference.
> thanks
>
>
> --
> Dave MacLeod
> remove the "1" to reply
> dmacleo@midmaine1.com
> "Shoe Salesman" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:wYVNe.5034$UE2.2531@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
> "dmac" <dmacleo@midmaine1.com> wrote in message
> news:1124586188_351@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
> I recently had to replace the intake on my 97 crown vic. while doing that
> I noticed there was NO knock sensor in the valley. there was a spot that
> looked like it should be machined out to have one, but nothing there. also
> were no wires leading into the valley, I was concerned that it might be in
> the rear of valley so I looked for wires. only thing there was the coolant
> tube and there was nothing under that also.
>
> My question is where else would it be, the dealer I bought it off (Ford)
> could not find any manual reference stating any other location for it.
>
>
> --
> Dave MacLeod
> remove the "1" to reply
> dmacleo@midmaine1.com
>
> Is it pinging/knocking? If so clean the MAF and change the fuel filter. If
> not, you worry to much :)
>
>




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G
#10 ·
Re: FIXED-Re: knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

Thanks for the repair report. Everyone around here appreciates it as much
as I do.

I do plan to replace the fan clutch, I just need to wait a bit. The
electric runs as soon as I turn the A/C on so it is working right.

I disconnected the electric a few weeks ago on a hot day for a test. I made
an in-town stop-and-go driving run (lot's of stop - untimed traffic lights)
and just really tried to heat it up. The fan never made much noise and the
temp guage never went up above center. The clutch drag is the same if hot
or cold, sat overnight or fresh off a hot drive. I'm fairly sure it's shot.

If I can't make the knock go away with the clutch, then it's time for a new
MAF. I've done all the rest already. Your report tells me there sometimes
is a difference between cleaning and replacing.

Thanks!

PoD
 
G
#11 ·
Re: FIXED-Re: knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

Hey Paul,

Why not do a little test? Contributes to the general knowledge on here.

Drive till ping develops then disconnect the MAF harness nad see what
happens. If the knock goes away, and you've cleaned the MAF, then that's
a pretty good indicator.

Of course all your other sensors have to be up to snuff for the car to
run right.


"Paul of Dayton" <F_and_P@NOSPAMameritech.net> wrote in
news:NC7Pe.1441$eQ.740@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com:

> Thanks for the repair report. Everyone around here appreciates it as
> much as I do.
>
> I do plan to replace the fan clutch, I just need to wait a bit. The
> electric runs as soon as I turn the A/C on so it is working right.
>
> I disconnected the electric a few weeks ago on a hot day for a test.
> I made an in-town stop-and-go driving run (lot's of stop - untimed
> traffic lights) and just really tried to heat it up. The fan never
> made much noise and the temp guage never went up above center. The
> clutch drag is the same if hot or cold, sat overnight or fresh off a
> hot drive. I'm fairly sure it's shot.
>
> If I can't make the knock go away with the clutch, then it's time for
> a new MAF. I've done all the rest already. Your report tells me
> there sometimes is a difference between cleaning and replacing.
>
> Thanks!
>
> PoD
>
>
>
>
 
G
#12 ·
Re: FIXED-Re: knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

Hey Backyard, that's a great idea! I'll do it soon and report back.
Thanks!

PoD


"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96BD6DF4E8FC1pettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
> Hey Paul,
>
> Why not do a little test? Contributes to the general knowledge on here.
>
> Drive till ping develops then disconnect the MAF harness nad see what
> happens. If the knock goes away, and you've cleaned the MAF, then that's
> a pretty good indicator.
>
> Of course all your other sensors have to be up to snuff for the car to
> run right.
>
>
> "Paul of Dayton" <F_and_P@NOSPAMameritech.net> wrote in
> news:NC7Pe.1441$eQ.740@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> Thanks for the repair report. Everyone around here appreciates it as
>> much as I do.
>>
>> I do plan to replace the fan clutch, I just need to wait a bit. The
>> electric runs as soon as I turn the A/C on so it is working right.
>>
>> I disconnected the electric a few weeks ago on a hot day for a test.
>> I made an in-town stop-and-go driving run (lot's of stop - untimed
>> traffic lights) and just really tried to heat it up. The fan never
>> made much noise and the temp guage never went up above center. The
>> clutch drag is the same if hot or cold, sat overnight or fresh off a
>> hot drive. I'm fairly sure it's shot.
>>
>> If I can't make the knock go away with the clutch, then it's time for
>> a new MAF. I've done all the rest already. Your report tells me
>> there sometimes is a difference between cleaning and replacing.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> PoD
>>
>>
>>
>>

>
 
G
#13 ·
Re: FIXED-Re: knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

"Paul of Dayton" <F_and_P@NOSPAMameritech.net> wrote in message
news:pdoPe.2919$u_6.1052@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> Hey Backyard, that's a great idea! I'll do it soon and report back.
> Thanks!
>
> PoD
>
>
> "Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96BD6DF4E8FC1pettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
>> Hey Paul,
>>
>> Why not do a little test? Contributes to the general knowledge on here.
>>
>> Drive till ping develops then disconnect the MAF harness nad see what
>> happens. If the knock goes away, and you've cleaned the MAF, then that's
>> a pretty good indicator.
>>
>> Of course all your other sensors have to be up to snuff for the car to
>> run right.
>>
>>

I don't think that will prove anything. The ECM will most likely default a
little rich. Swapping the old with a new will tell for sure.
 
G
#14 ·
Re: FIXED-Re: knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

I'm sure swapping it would tell but I'm cheap! There are no codes at
present but the ping is annoying. I like to put my foor in it once in a
while, yaknow?!!

I'm not too worried about it yet, my cash flow tells me a new MAF will wait
a bit, anyway.

Thanks for the tip, tho.

PoD

"Shoe Salesman" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:kftPe.4948$Q82.3660@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
> "Paul of Dayton" <F_and_P@NOSPAMameritech.net> wrote in message
> news:pdoPe.2919$u_6.1052@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>> Hey Backyard, that's a great idea! I'll do it soon and report back.
>> Thanks!
>>
>> PoD
>>
>>
>> "Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns96BD6DF4E8FC1pettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
>>> Hey Paul,
>>>
>>> Why not do a little test? Contributes to the general knowledge on here.
>>>
>>> Drive till ping develops then disconnect the MAF harness nad see what
>>> happens. If the knock goes away, and you've cleaned the MAF, then
>>> that's
>>> a pretty good indicator.
>>>
>>> Of course all your other sensors have to be up to snuff for the car to
>>> run right.
>>>
>>>

> I don't think that will prove anything. The ECM will most likely default a
> little rich. Swapping the old with a new will tell for sure.
>
 
G
#15 ·
Re: FIXED-Re: knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

"Paul of Dayton" <F_and_P@NOSPAMameritech.net> wrote in
news:lcFPe.3902$u_6.2490@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:

> I'm sure swapping it would tell but I'm cheap! There are no codes at
> present but the ping is annoying. I like to put my foor in it once in
> a while, yaknow?!!
>
> I'm not too worried about it yet, my cash flow tells me a new MAF will
> wait a bit, anyway.
>
> Thanks for the tip, tho.


Hey...if you have rattle at wide open throttle, that's serious.

Many MAF/ping problems manifest at tip-in, meaning slight acceleration from
cruise... but you dont hear it at WOT because engine goes closed-loop and
sends richer mixture for safety.

My prev. Tbird had occasional pinging at WOT in really hot weather, but
always on tip-in when temp was over 85.

Solved with a used MAF from same series... I lost about 1/2 mpg though.
I got it from a guy who was parting out, but I would think they are
relatively cheap at salvage.

Here's something else to look for... check the ducting and screen just
ahead of the MAF.. anythng that causes disturbance in flow can result in
unequal airflow across face of the maf; ie, lower relative flow into the
sensor tunnel.
 
G
#16 ·
Re: FIXED-Re: knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

Thanks Backyard! I will try to get in there today. I appreciate all the
tips.

PoD


"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96BF57281D5A7pettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
> "Paul of Dayton" <F_and_P@NOSPAMameritech.net> wrote in
> news:lcFPe.3902$u_6.2490@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> I'm sure swapping it would tell but I'm cheap! There are no codes at
>> present but the ping is annoying. I like to put my foor in it once in
>> a while, yaknow?!!
>>
>> I'm not too worried about it yet, my cash flow tells me a new MAF will
>> wait a bit, anyway.
>>
>> Thanks for the tip, tho.

>
> Hey...if you have rattle at wide open throttle, that's serious.
>
> Many MAF/ping problems manifest at tip-in, meaning slight acceleration
> from
> cruise... but you dont hear it at WOT because engine goes closed-loop and
> sends richer mixture for safety.
>
> My prev. Tbird had occasional pinging at WOT in really hot weather, but
> always on tip-in when temp was over 85.
>
> Solved with a used MAF from same series... I lost about 1/2 mpg though.
> I got it from a guy who was parting out, but I would think they are
> relatively cheap at salvage.
>
> Here's something else to look for... check the ducting and screen just
> ahead of the MAF.. anythng that causes disturbance in flow can result in
> unequal airflow across face of the maf; ie, lower relative flow into the
> sensor tunnel.
 
G
#17 ·
Re: FIXED-Re: knock sensor location 97 crown vic 4.6

I was getting it mostly at WOT (remember, I said I let the horsie run....)
from mid rpm range and up. this is what confused me most and didn't
immediately point me to MAF. tip in was not bad unless it kicked down and
unlocked TCC, then it started as rpm came up. that's why I spent so much
(wasted) time determining if in fact there was a Knock Sensor on this year
crown vic.
been running a few days with new MAF, no ping from 0 to 120 mph yet...seemed
to have gained a little fuel mileage and can tow a trailer full of lumber at
80mph with no ping also.


--
Dave MacLeod
remove the "1" to reply
dmacleo@midmaine1.com
"Backyard Mechanic" <pettyfog@yaywho.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96BF57281D5A7pettyfogery@207.115.63.158...
> "Paul of Dayton" <F_and_P@NOSPAMameritech.net> wrote in
> news:lcFPe.3902$u_6.2490@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> I'm sure swapping it would tell but I'm cheap! There are no codes at
>> present but the ping is annoying. I like to put my foor in it once in
>> a while, yaknow?!!
>>
>> I'm not too worried about it yet, my cash flow tells me a new MAF will
>> wait a bit, anyway.
>>
>> Thanks for the tip, tho.

>
> Hey...if you have rattle at wide open throttle, that's serious.
>
> Many MAF/ping problems manifest at tip-in, meaning slight acceleration
> from
> cruise... but you dont hear it at WOT because engine goes closed-loop and
> sends richer mixture for safety.
>
> My prev. Tbird had occasional pinging at WOT in really hot weather, but
> always on tip-in when temp was over 85.
>
> Solved with a used MAF from same series... I lost about 1/2 mpg though.
> I got it from a guy who was parting out, but I would think they are
> relatively cheap at salvage.
>
> Here's something else to look for... check the ducting and screen just
> ahead of the MAF.. anythng that causes disturbance in flow can result in
> unequal airflow across face of the maf; ie, lower relative flow into the
> sensor tunnel.




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