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W Code Mustang

32K views 65 replies 14 participants last post by  www.427 
#1 ·
Hi all, I'm from australia and new to the forum.
I have an interesting car that i'm trying to research and i hope that somebody out there may have some information and an open mind.(I'm expecting 95% of you to think i'm full of it!)

My car is a 68 convertible mustang with with a "W" code VIN.

I have a 999 report from ford verifying the VIN and engine as a 390 hp 427ci 4v. The rest of the drive line specifications in the report don't match what is in the car now or what i thought would have been.

I also have a Marti report which says it is not a "W" code. The Marti report does say that the car was ordered through a dealer in Chicago called Hoeffel and Goy (Who I can't find now). Does anyone know anything about this dealership?

My car is fitted with a 68 date coded hydraulic lifter 427 side oiler (now fitted with solid rollers) top loader and 3.75 9 inch detroit locker.

The VIN is stamped on the dash VIN tag and on the inner fender apron. It is also stamped on the door tag which i believe to be a repro.

The car was purchased from a wrecking yard outside Memphis 20 years ago and was imported on the documented W code VIN.

The car was restored and has been registered here ever since.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Apologies in advance if it takes me while to respond, as i will probably be sleeping or watching Marcos Ambrose race! (Big time difference)

Cheers,
Adrian
 
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#2 ·
Your are right in your efforts assuming it's a 427 W code. It was a detuned engine with less horse power.

I'm not exactly sure but I think it was used in the mercury maurader. Although mercury did use the 427 2x4 and called it the super maurader.

You'll have to do more researching to get all the true information. In the meantime here is a link to 1968 vin decoding, see if this helps.

Decode This! 1968 Ford All Models VIN Decoder Pattern
 
#5 ·
Marti has no Ford documentation that the 68 W code stangs were ever made. That's why he won't support the fact. This is another one of those grey areas in Ford history. There are those who swear they are real and have owned the cars. But little to no documentation was kept. Back then the whole numbers thing wasn't a big deal. I'm sure there were test cars and some factory cars made for racing and evaluation. I've heard of a few fastbacks and 1 coupe but never a convertable. People have been waiting to see pics of a real W code Mustang for years so if yours is the real deal it'll be big news. I think anything is possible and would love to see one of these cars surface and prove they are out there. I hope you can get those pics to post somehow. I'd really like to see the car.
 
#7 ·
Yeah Id like to see the pics too. The only place I've seen a W code is in the '60's chiltons manual. I believe the engine existes, but what it's use or application is not clear to me. I've always thought it was used in the mercurys, becaused it was detuned, 410HP I believe.
I tried to upload the #*%!! photos 3 times but it keeps saying "invalid post specified"! if you PM me your email address i can email you some pics. I know how to do that!

I have spoken with a large number of people regarding my car. Some people believe it may have been a company executive vehicle, some people say it's a clone other people think it may have been a race vehicle (i'm not sure about that being convertible?) Some experts won't talk to me at all! Whatever they say, it's real to me because i drive it.

The W code engine was actually a mustang factory option in 68 until the end of April i believe. It was also offered in cougars. I know it was an expensive option but surely if mopar guys were ticking the hemi cuda option some ford guys would have also done the same. I have collected some bits and pieces including factory tune up charts etc for 427 4V mustangs. It was quoted as being detuned to 390 hp due to the hydraulic lifters i guess.

I know of one other alleged W code in Europe. I have chatted with the guy but he doesn't want to post photos because he's a collector or something like that and wishes to be confidential. That's cool, so is the car!

My car was fitted with a scatter shield and a detroit locker 9 inch when it was bought from the wrecking yard which i guess could indicate competition use. It has aluminum heads and a 750 hp series Holley now, but had no heads or induction on it then.

Who knows? I hope that someone may remember something.

Whatever the case, it's awesome to drive now!


Adrian
 
#6 ·
Yeah Id like to see the pics too. The only place I've seen a W code is in the '60's chiltons manual. I believe the engine existes, but what it's use or application is not clear to me. I've always thought it was used in the mercurys, becaused it was detuned, 410HP I believe.
 
#11 ·
According to the Mustang 1964 1/2 - 1973 Restoration Guide, it lists a W code as possible, stating one is known to exist, a former drag car. A 427 4V (Pg. 133). Flipping to Pg. 135 a list of engine tag ID's, there are 5 different W code 427 possibilities. Code 350- Holley 4V. Code 359- Ford 4V. Code 360- Holley 4V. Code 361- Holley 8V. Code 364- Holley 4V.

Your VIN is otherwise correct. 8-1968 F-Dearborn Assenbly 03-Convertible W-427. The door tag looks original. Now the rest of the Data. 76A-Convertible, T-Candyapple Red, 2A-Charcoal Black crinkle vinyl with charcoal black kiwi pattern vinyl, 10V-August 10, 1968, DSO 63-Memphis District Sales Office, G-3.25 Limited slip, 5-4 speed manual.

The taillight panel on the car is a Shelby one, this was also used on California Special and High Plain Drifter Models. The side marker lights are missing. 67's didn't have them, 68 it was federaly mandated.
 
#12 ·
Thanks mate, I'm sure they were available too and as i've said before, I can't believe that no Ford guy ticked the 427 side oiler box on his Mustang purchase order. (apart from my car !)

I've recently seen NOS parts for sale for a 427 mustang! There are advertisements and promotional material to support it also.

My car may not be totally correct now, it is 40 years old after all but i believe fundamentally it's all there.

My investigations decoded it to be the same as what you came up with. I know it was red before it was painted black. I know it is not a California Special or a High Country Special because it was built in Dearborn.

I've been asked a few times about the race car theory due to the scatter shield and detroit locker that were in the car when it was purchased from the wreckers yard 20 years ago and are still in it today. I thought it was a bit odd being a convertible but evidently there was a roadster drag racing category back then. Who knows?

Thank you for your help and comments.

Cheers guys,
Adrian
 
#21 ·
I sent 1968w427gte the link to this thread. I was curious about the documentation of the car. And if anyone had heard of it before as they don't surface that often. And if and when they do they are recreations without much documentation. No doubt it's a really nice car with the 427 and all. And I'm by no means a expert on the subject. But 1968w427gte is and I value his opinion on the subject. So if there are any hard feelings as to what he's posted please direct it towards me. When you claim to have such a elusive car some people are going to poke it with a stick to see if it moves. I am one of those sorry. With all the clones and recreations you see out there today it will always be questioned. I didn't mean for this thread to get negative only provide some documentation information. Which it has. Anyway best of luck with the car.
 
#22 ·
It's ok mate, don't worry about it.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion (which i think is healthy) and you certainly can't be responsible for other people's opinions.

I often get amused by the way people blindly believe what another person tells them, just because they claim to know what they are talking about, and that is not just to do with my car. I mean generally. I think the only way you can possibly know for sure is through personal experience.

I have been contacted by a few people that say they have driven and seen factory 427 mustangs back in the day as well as those that say they don't exist. There is published literature that supports the W code Mustang and there is literature that doesn't. Which expert is right?

I bought my car about 12 months ago with my eyes wide open. I have been researching it all that time and i have had many different views from a wide range of people including experts and authors. Some are positive and some are negative.

I don't claim to have anything other then what i have. I just thought it was time to put it out there in the hope that someone may recognize the car or know something through experience.

Thanks again for note and your interest.

Cheers,

Adrian
 
#23 ·
The thing is, your car has been a known fraud for a long time. You keep trotting it out on this forum or that one, and the thing is still a fraud. The fact is, no W code Mustangs were made by Ford, ever, and the production database is quite specific and undeniable.

One very cool thing about the database is that it not only shows cars that were built, it also shows cars that were ordered but never built. In the case of W code '68 Cougars there are a number of orders that were accepted and entered into the system, but never built for one reason or another, whereas some 357 were actually built.

In the case of W code 1968 Mustangs, not only were there none shown as being built, but no orders were ever accepted for entry in the system.

Then there is the problem of not one single magazine test of a W code Mustang. There were no magazine advertizements, no television commercials, nothing.

At the Ford experimental garage in Allen Park, Michigan a record was kept of cars modified for experimental use. I know the guy who was supervisor at Allen Park for most of the late 1960's through about 1980. He has records for two 1967 Mustang fastbacks that were built as "S" code cars and had the '68 sideoiler and automatic installed for emissions testing and hot / cold weather trials. He remembers letting several Ford drag racers test the cars. The VIN's of those cars are known, and are shown on the scrap list for 1967.

No such W code cars or even "S" code 1968 Mustangs with a 427 added later are listed in 1968. None, nada, zero. Ford did build a few Boss 302 1968 Mustang mule cars, again known to be scrapped and again cars with an "S" in the VIN because they were 390 cars when they came down the assembly line. Ford also built some 351W mules using "S" code '68 fastbacks. Again cars that were scrapped, and again we know the VIN's. I

I am sorry to have to pee on your parade, but you asked for it.
 
#31 ·
In the pic of the Dash Tag, the reflection of the and antenna is visible in the windshield. In the pic of the car from the front view the antenna is on the drivers side. I was under the impression all '68 mustangs had the dash tag on the passenger side? Can any one help me with this???
 
#33 ·
Adrian, it is very simple. A Marti report is considered the golden word. In the Ford world, from '68 up . . this is it. You cannot create something else, this is it. So all you have to do that would make believers out of everyone . . is provide the Marti report stating this was a "W" code car. If you cannot, you are just providing lip service that is worth nothing.
 
#34 ·
I respect your opinion pete, but i don't agree.

I'm not trying to create anything or prove anyone wrong. i'm just researching.

When people make unfounded and unsubstantiated remarks, then i will vigorously defend myself.

Quite frankly, i didn't expect for people to be so narrow minded considering the passage of time. I live in the real world not the mustang world.

Thanks mate,
Adrian
 
#38 ·
Hi John,
I'm not sure but the guy who imported the car originally is trying to find paperwork for me.

Because it was 20 years ago, the computer records were not up to todays' standards so it's difficult to trace licensing records etc.

If he can find the details, i will definitely plan a trip to the states to follow it up.

Cheers,

Adrian
 
#41 ·
Hi all, I'm from australia and new to the forum.
I have an interesting car that i'm trying to research and i hope that somebody out there may have some information and an open mind.(I'm expecting 95% of you to think i'm full of it!)
You already knew what kind of response this would bring, so don't be surprised by the 95% "frosty" response. If all you doing is researching this car, and YOU believe it to be legit, why do you care what anyone else thinks?

As others have said, the Marti is universally accepted as gospel in the Ford world. It is the "bulletproof" evidence you seek. If yours doesn't show a W, good luck convincing ANYONE this car is a legit W. Humor us, post the Marti report, regardless of what it says.

I have spoken with a large number of people regarding my car. Some people believe it may have been a company executive vehicle, some people say it's a clone other people think it may have been a race vehicle (i'm not sure about that being convertible?) Some experts won't talk to me at all! Whatever they say, it's real to me because i drive it.


All that being said, I have a open mind and I might be your 5%. Ford did build some special cars for execs, including a SOHC Galaxie, and three special Talladegas. If you really want to prove this car is legit, start researching it's history through previous owners. A paper trail back to day one, while extremely difficult to do, would help your cause immensely. A legit registration with the W in the vin from '68 or '69 would be a great start.
 
#43 ·
You already knew what kind of response this would bring, so don't be surprised by the 95% "frosty" response. If all you doing is researching this car, and YOU believe it to be legit, why do you care what anyone else thinks?

As others have said, the Marti is universally accepted as gospel in the Ford world. It is the "bulletproof" evidence you seek. If yours doesn't show a W, good luck convincing ANYONE this car is a legit W. Humor us, post the Marti report, regardless of what it says.





All that being said, I have a open mind and I might be your 5%. Ford did build some special cars for execs, including a SOHC Galaxie, and three special Talladegas. If you really want to prove this car is legit, start researching it's history through previous owners. A paper trail back to day one, while extremely difficult to do, would help your cause immensely. A legit registration with the W in the vin from '68 or '69 would be a great start.
Hi mate, i did have some idea of the reception and i actually am just researching and am not bothered by what people think. But... as i said before i will defend myself if attacked.

Thanks for your words of advice. When i first started posting it was to gather information on the car's history. I've got the car's history since it's been in Australia which is 20 odd years. It's the previous 20 that i'm researching. I'm not really sure where to start but a trip to the wrecking yard (if i can find it) would be my first stop i guess then i'd work back from there. Unless a previous owner or someone with info comes forward...

By the way, love the website. I have previously visited it many times.

Cheers,

Adrian
 
#42 ·
What is the engine code the Marti report shows? Also, what are the stampings on the fender aprons. Can you post pics of them. What about the shock tower rap arounds...does your car have them? Please post pics of the shock towers as well.

Last, I would like to see pics of how the right hand drive conversion was done. Thanks
 
#44 · (Edited)
Adrian I thought Builder1 asked an interesting question. What engine code has the Marti report given for your VIN number.

I realise there are reports of cars built with a regular engine and then Ford has refitted another engine for drag or racing purposes later. I'm not sure how that is regarded but documentation would need to be very good to understand the cars purpose by Ford etc.
 
#46 ·
Hi guys, my first post. I was referred here from another forum that does have a lot of knowledge of FE history.
FWIW I believe you have a unique car there. That being said it is also over 40 years old and probably has changed hands quite a few times. I also believe the car has been modified as it does have a 427 in it now. It could have been modified by anyone at any time before you received it.
What you have and will always have is a highly modified T code car. You also have a car that has original documentation from Marti that shows it to be different than its current state. Personally, I believe the vin has been tampered with. That doesn't mean you but someone changed the vin in an attempt to enhance the value of this car. You will, and already have, received a bunch of different answers to your questions here and you will still be confused once this thread ends. If I were you I would get concerned about the vin discrepancy from a legal perspective. If this cars vin was altered by anyone other than Ford, and you can't prove it hasn't, you may have a hard time selling it in the future.
As long as Marti shows it to be a T code it will always be considered a T code unless you can document from Ford the actual change to the VIN. This change may have happened at the original dealer who could not get a 427 Mustang for a customer and altered the MSO. No one knows. I certainly hope you can find the documentation to prove it came from the factory as a 427 but I doubt you ever will. It will take more than a form letter from Ford to prove this cars validity.
If you ever do prove this came as a 427 you have a nice retirement sitting in your driveway. Either way you have a nice car and you should enjoy it.
One of the things I used to tell my boss is if you are afraid of the answer don't ask me the question. You should take that advice here. I know you want to believe this car to be real but you should take the advice of those who posted here. Again, I am wishing your car is the real deal but like the others here I am very skeptical. Good luck with your hunt.
 
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