I am thinking about changin the standard item in my EL to a 9" arrangement for increased strength (and to take advantage of the superior clutch-pak LSD).
Does anyone know how much stronger the 9" diff is?
You will also loose about 30HP to turn the 9" so unless you are going to update or feed those neddies some extra "Hay" it will be not worth the effort.
Re: relative strength of 9" vs 8&3/4" diffs
you can get your Borg Warner to handle some serious HP as they can put VL diff gears into it as well as ford gears, which gives you a pretty big range of options. Would be cheaper to replace if you break it too.
Get your BW converted to 4 pin LSD. This is enough for a good 1000HP at the fly.
OK. I have a hydratrak lying around in the garage. I have no idea how this type of LSD works, nor any idea of it's robustness. Does anyone out there have any experience with these. They were, I believe, standard equipment on the EL GT and in a lot of HSVs. The standard cone arrangement LSD requires constant rebuilding. We are looking at going to a spool, but do not have time to test this in the car until Mid July, but more likely mid August.
Re: relative strength of 9" vs 8&3/4" diffs
Okay, first things first. A 9" does not take 30hp more to turn. This is bollocks. Vl diff gears will fit, but I wouldn't try to run more than 450/500fwhp through them. Anthing more than 650fwhp is going to push the friendship with a BW 75 or 78 series diff, regardless of gears used. At the upper limits, gear strength is not the issue, you are risking outright hemisphere or axle failure. Hydratrack are good in theory, but can be troublesome in use. They use a special coupling to join the axles together instead of the usual cones, and thus require special axles.(and hemisphere, of course) What application is the car to be run in?
So your saying that 9" diffs do use up extra "HP" ?
How long have you been around as it has and is a known factor, that it does use extra "HP" to run a 9".
Comparing 9" LSD 28 spline against BW 4 pinion LSD 28 spline, the 9" is heavier, but as a neutral balanced assembly, once it is spinning at a given speed, it will not take extra power to keep spinning.
You said nothing about power to weight. If you had said two identical cars, one with a 9" and one with a much lighter BW, were to go heads up the BW equipped, and thus lighter car, would win, then I would have said hell yes.(assuming the BW didn't break)
You in fact said a 9" takes an extra 30hp to turn. This means that the 9" creates a dead loss of an extra 30 hp over a Bw diff, which is BS.
Re: relative strength of 9" vs 8&3/4" diffs
Or, lets put it another way. You run your BW equipped mini with one HP and I'll run a 9" equipped mini with 31 HP, as you have given me a 30HP H/C as that is what a 9" "wastes", and I bet I kick your arse.
What is the split? 50/50? 50% of 30hp = 15 hp. 15hp = 11.2Kw. So you are saying a 9" dumps out the equivalent of 4.6 fan heaters (give or take)going flat out worth of heat as friction losses MORE than a BW?
If not then why wouldn't it be as Quick as the BW diff. ?
as you are saying.
You said moving parts before, but lets see:9" LSD = 39, BW = 28 or 35. Of these, not counting parts that don't have relative movement to each adjacent part INDIVIDUALLY: 9" = 6, BW = 6.
The Diff Carrier alone is nearly as heavy as the BW diff complete.
You lose the extra weight you have to cart, and possibly absolute minimal running losses, with the 9". My previous post was clear on this issue. On rough track you may gain lower unsprung weight handling improvements with the BW.
Yes the two diffs had the same ratio, as I broke three BW diffs including putting a 3] diameter hole in the Hat.
To which I got sick of repairing and the expense.
So in went the 9" out of an XC, oh by the way I modified the Diff housing myself to fit the Coil rear end of the XE.
That is when it went on the dyno, and the results were on the dyno.
I agree with the 9" but they are all breakable if abused the wrong way.
Everything was the same except I had a shower and changed my clothes, so I don't think that would alter anything.
{You said moving parts before, but lets see:9" LSD = 39, BW = 28 or 35. Of these, not counting parts that don't have relative movement to each adjacent part INDIVIDUALLY: 9" = 6, BW = 6.}
There is a few more parts in the 9" including being heavier and stronger
Got them too.... I have a complete housing dics to disc fitted with a Hydratrak and 3.23 gears. I changed to a standard LSD arangement when I got a 3.7 ring and pinion. We've made an exceutive decision to stay with the BW at this stage, fitting new 3.9 gears that are allegedly stronger through haveing a different (curved) tooth shape.
The application is a gravel stage EL XR8 rally car generating about 270rwhp, with more to come if we feel so inclined.
I believe I also owe you an apology regarding a discussion we had about the extension housing lengths of T5 gearboxes some time ago. Someone (not me!) had got into the gearbox crates and substituted an AU extension housing into all the EL V8 parts. The AU part is longer, and we discovered this the expensive way after we had had a new input shaft machined......
Re: relative strength of 9" vs 8&3/4" diffs
if "fords r tuff" has a broken borg warner, and wbt56 has a working 9", wbt56 will win.
as far as i know, all bw from vn onwards, and i assume ea, are 4 pin. it shouldn't make much of a difference on the road, from bw to 9", except for the easier choice of ratios, unless you have a rotary or 4 cyl, (with no torque).
either way, i dont care, as the 31sp 9" still isnt strong enough for me! i now have a full floating 14bolt chev diff! with 31sp axles, and 10.5" ring gear.
Crush,
I used to until I sick of breaking them, but as I said in a thread above that I replaced the BW with a 9" LSD out of an XC and fitted 3.89 Strange diff gears.
Yes I had both setups on the Dyno
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