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Old 07-08-2010, 16:14   #1 (permalink)
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87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

Hi,

Before I start, let me first state that I have absolutely no mechanical experience, whatsoever.. So that's the first problem lol.

I drive a 1987 Ford LTD Crown Victoria. It's only got 51k original miles, so overall in good shape, however recently my power steering pump locked up and melted off my serpentine belt, rendering it immobile. I don't quite have the $500 yet to get a new pump installed, but I had been able to drive the vehicle without the P/S (arms of steel *cough*) for a bit and am looking into possibly bypassing the pump for now until I get the rest of the money.

I've received mixed reviews about bypassing the power steering by rerouting a shorter belt excluding the pump, and I'm wondering if 1) this can be a short term solution for me until I get the funds saved up to fix the pump without any significant damage to the vehicle itself and 2) if so, where the hell can I get a diagram that shows me how to reroute the belt?

If I'm going to do this, I need to know what size belt to use and to figure that out I need a diagram to show me which directions to route a shortened belt that would exclude the pump so I can measure it out with a rope or something similar...

If anyone has any experience in this or any words of advise to help me, please do, because I am desperate!!

Thanks for any and all help! :D

Cheers,
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Old 07-08-2010, 19:54   #2 (permalink)
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cool Re: 87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

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Originally Posted by redhed787 View Post
Hi,

Before I start, let me first state that I have absolutely no mechanical experience, whatsoever.. So that's the first problem lol.

I drive a 1987 Ford LTD Crown Victoria. It's only got 51k original miles, so overall in good shape, however recently my power steering pump locked up and melted off my serpentine belt, rendering it immobile. I don't quite have the $500 yet to get a new pump installed, but I had been able to drive the vehicle without the P/S (arms of steel *cough*) for a bit and am looking into possibly bypassing the pump for now until I get the rest of the money.

I've received mixed reviews about bypassing the power steering by rerouting a shorter belt excluding the pump, and I'm wondering if 1) this can be a short term solution for me until I get the funds saved up to fix the pump without any significant damage to the vehicle itself and 2) if so, where the hell can I get a diagram that shows me how to reroute the belt?

If I'm going to do this, I need to know what size belt to use and to figure that out I need a diagram to show me which directions to route a shortened belt that would exclude the pump so I can measure it out with a rope or something similar...

If anyone has any experience in this or any words of advise to help me, please do, because I am desperate!!

Thanks for any and all help! :D

Cheers,
Amber
$500??? That seems expensive. AllData (An online repair data site) only lists 1.5 hrs of labor. At $100 an hour, that's only $150 for labor. The pump itself, for a remanufactured unit including the reservour is only $50 through our sponsor Rock Auto with the core charge (a core charge of $10 is added to the price, as long as you return the old pump you get the $10 back). Unless they are replacing other components, like the lines.

They didn't build the 87 CV without P/S, so a direct fit belt is out of the question. You would have to find a parts place local to you well stocked with belts. You first need to find a belt with the same number of teeth or ribs as the original. Next, the belt has to be shorter in length. The routing would be the same, except it wouldn't go around the P/S pulley, it would go from the alternator straight down to the Crankshaft pulley, with some slack for adjustability. The problem I forsee with this is the belt rubbing against the P/S pulley. A solution would be to remove the P/S pulley.

I have a couple suggestions.

1. Call around some shops and ask for an estimate for the P/S Pump replacement. You should be able to find a better price than $500.
2. I know you said you have no mechanical experience, but why not try doing it yourself??? If you're willing to try it, I can try to give you some detailed instructions of what you need to do and what tools you need.
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Old 07-08-2010, 21:14   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

Thank you very much for your input!

I don't know if it's just Indiana, but yes, I had called around to a few shops (Firestone, Pep Boys, some local shops, etc.) and been quoted between $400-$600 (hence I averaged to around $500). I don't know if it's just because I am female and they figured I was an easy target, or what, but I know I can't afford those prices right now. I wonder now, though, if I explain to them this source you refer to, AllData, they might budge a little? :(

I would be willing to learn to do it myself if it's simple enough. The only thing is I hardly have any tools of my own for auto repair, so I'm hoping that I would be able to find someone to borrow some from so that I don't shell out a bunch of money for tools as well.

I don't know the way the original routing of the belt was before as it melted off and I didn't realize before to draw one to keep handy until after it became a problem and I needed one. I was unable to find anything under the hood or in the original documents that showed me how to route the belt as it was originally, but now that you say even the smaller belt would be routed the same way, I should hopefully have an easier time finding the original diagram for this year, make, and model online (hopefully!)

Also, the person who towed my vehicle suggested to me to simply loosen the bolts around the P/S pump or pulley and move it back to allow room for the shortened belt to run smoothly? But that seems like the pump could still move around and interfere with the belt causing another issue.. Might as well remove it like you said.

I'm in a bit of a time crunch as far as rides go to work, so I was trying to think of a quick fix to get me to work until my next check for the pump. Once I get a good diagram, I'll use some rope to route it the same way as it was originally minus the P/S and see if AutoZone has that size with the same amount of teeth, etc. From what I heard, I'll need some standard wrenches to do the job?

Thanks again.
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Old 07-09-2010, 21:22   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

best bet is to hit a junkyard and get a p/s pump... you cant bypass a p/s pump really... though it is possible to bypass smog pump if it locks up on you...
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Old 07-09-2010, 22:35   #5 (permalink)
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cool Re: 87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

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Originally Posted by redhed787 View Post
Thank you very much for your input!

I don't know if it's just Indiana, but yes, I had called around to a few shops (Firestone, Pep Boys, some local shops, etc.) and been quoted between $400-$600 (hence I averaged to around $500). I don't know if it's just because I am female and they figured I was an easy target, or what, but I know I can't afford those prices right now. I wonder now, though, if I explain to them this source you refer to, AllData, they might budge a little? :(

I would be willing to learn to do it myself if it's simple enough. The only thing is I hardly have any tools of my own for auto repair, so I'm hoping that I would be able to find someone to borrow some from so that I don't shell out a bunch of money for tools as well.

I don't know the way the original routing of the belt was before as it melted off and I didn't realize before to draw one to keep handy until after it became a problem and I needed one. I was unable to find anything under the hood or in the original documents that showed me how to route the belt as it was originally, but now that you say even the smaller belt would be routed the same way, I should hopefully have an easier time finding the original diagram for this year, make, and model online (hopefully!)

Also, the person who towed my vehicle suggested to me to simply loosen the bolts around the P/S pump or pulley and move it back to allow room for the shortened belt to run smoothly? But that seems like the pump could still move around and interfere with the belt causing another issue.. Might as well remove it like you said.

I'm in a bit of a time crunch as far as rides go to work, so I was trying to think of a quick fix to get me to work until my next check for the pump. Once I get a good diagram, I'll use some rope to route it the same way as it was originally minus the P/S and see if AutoZone has that size with the same amount of teeth, etc. From what I heard, I'll need some standard wrenches to do the job?

Thanks again.
You can't loosen the P/S Pump bolts unless you remove the pulley. You can't loosen the mounting bracket either, as the alternator uses the same bracket. Here is the belt diagram, with the routing I suggested:



The early to mid eighties is when the domestic auto manufacturers started to switch over to metric fasteners, so have a tool set with metric and standard wrenches and sockets. The P/S Pump pulley requires a special puller to remove it and a special tool to install it. You can rent them at local parts stores usually.
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:27   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

Oh sweet, thank you for that diagram! I was having a hell of a time finding that..

What I just realized, though, is I might as well go ahead and replace the power steering pump because I think I was driving on a partially working pump previously and it will probably be much harder if I have none at all...

So, I've been doing some research.. I called in the parts I need at Autozone yesterday (they'll be in at 2pm today), was pretty cheap (so realizing these repair shops around here were just trying to royally screw me).

What originally happened was the p/s high pressure hose broke causing the fluid to leak out, then I drove it around like an idiot before fixing this minor issue causing the pump to dry up and lock up, then causing the belt to break. So I ordered a hose, a pump, and a standard sized belt since I've decided not to bypass and to just fix it all myself.

It appears in that diagram that there isn't a belt tensioner? (I've got very nooby eyes, so bear with me lol) Once I'm done installing the pump and hose, what do I need to do to get the belt tensioned properly? The guy at Autozone said I would need to rent a serpentine tool but wouldn't go into specifics...

Thanks again for your help and that freakin' diagram!! :D

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Old 07-10-2010, 07:01   #7 (permalink)
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Exclamation Re: 87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redhed787 View Post
Oh sweet, thank you for that diagram! I was having a hell of a time finding that..

What I just realized, though, is I might as well go ahead and replace the power steering pump because I think I was driving on a partially working pump previously and it will probably be much harder if I have none at all...

So, I've been doing some research.. I called in the parts I need at Autozone yesterday (they'll be in at 2pm today), was pretty cheap (so realizing these repair shops around here were just trying to royally screw me).

What originally happened was the p/s high pressure hose broke causing the fluid to leak out, then I drove it around like an idiot before fixing this minor issue causing the pump to dry up and lock up, then causing the belt to break. So I ordered a hose, a pump, and a standard sized belt since I've decided not to bypass and to just fix it all myself.

It appears in that diagram that there isn't a belt tensioner? (I've got very nooby eyes, so bear with me lol) Once I'm done installing the pump and hose, what do I need to do to get the belt tensioned properly? The guy at Autozone said I would need to rent a serpentine tool but wouldn't go into specifics...

Thanks again for your help and that freakin' diagram!! :D

Amber
There is no automatic tensioner on your car. If you look at the diagram, find Pivot Bolt C and Adjustment Torque A. These are the alternator bolts. You loosen the bolts, and using a wrench that fits on the top lug of the alternator as illustrated, you push the top of the alternator towards the left side of the vehicle to tension it, the opposite way to loosen it. Apply enough tension so that when you tighten the bolts, the belt has about 1/4' deflection or give on it's longest span, which by the diagram looks like in between the alternator and water pump pulleys. Use Mercon ATF for fluid.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:32   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

Ok, thanks.

For the pump and hose removal/installation, it appears I am going to need to remove the alternator to get to the bolts and stuff? Also, the pump sits pretty low in there, so I'm wondering too if I will need to remove the wheel at all to access the lower bolts and hose fittings?? I really hope not lol....
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Old 07-10-2010, 18:22   #9 (permalink)
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cool Re: 87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

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Originally Posted by redhed787 View Post
Ok, thanks.

For the pump and hose removal/installation, it appears I am going to need to remove the alternator to get to the bolts and stuff? Also, the pump sits pretty low in there, so I'm wondering too if I will need to remove the wheel at all to access the lower bolts and hose fittings?? I really hope not lol....
You don't have to remove the alternator. The bolts for the pump aren't accessible until you remove the pulley. Remove the air cleaner box for better access. They don't have a picture of the pump setup on AllData.

1. Disconnect power steering pump return line and allow power steering pump fluid to drain into a suitable container.
This will be clamped onto the reservour with a spring clamp or a regular screw type hose clamp.
2. Disconnect power steering pump pressure hose from pump fitting.
There is a TSB that deals with this connection. The fitting is threaded into the pump. Inside this fitting is a spring clip that holds the pressure line in. Typically when you buy the pressure line the fitting isn't included. It is sold seperately. You can either install the fitting on the pump, then push the line into the fitting until it clicks. Try to pull it back out to assure it is seated properly.3. Disconnect drive belt from power steering pump pulley.
Like I said before, loosen the alternator bolts, and using a wrench tilt the top of the alternator towards the right side of the vehicle to de-tension belt, towards the left side of the vehicle to tension, then tighten bolts. 1/4" belt deflection.
4. Remove pulley.
Using the correct puller tool, remove the pulley. There are a few variations. If you are unsure how to use it, or if the directions aren't clear enough, take a picture of it and post it in your next reply.
5. Remove pump.
Remove the 3 bolts that hold the pump to the bracket and remove the pump.
6. Reverse procedure to install. Torque pump to mounting bracket bolts to 30---45 ft. lbs. On Ford model CII power steering pump, torque pressure hose to pump fitting to 10-15 ft. lbs. Endplay on this fitting is normal and does not indicate a loose fitting.

When filling and bleeding the system, jack up the front end so both wheels are off of the ground. Fill the reservour most of the way. Now slowly turn the steering wheel lock-to-lock a few times (turning the steering wheel all the way to one side is a lock). Recheck and top off the fluid if needed. Turn the wheel lock-to-lock a few more times. Recheck the fluid. Now start the car and keep the fluid filled up to the correct level. If the fluid is foamy and the pump is noisy, let it run for about 10 minutes. It should quiet down by then. Turn the steering wheel lock-to-lock a few times. If it gets noisy again, don't worry. You're getting all of the air out so it works right. Lower the car down, and take it for a drive. If it works right you're done. Take pride that you did the job yourself and saved allot of money over sending it to a shop and spending a fortune.
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:46   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 87 Vic - bypass P/S help?

Ok thanks again. I do have a few questions before I start.

First, I just want to make sure of what to remove first. This is the air cleaner box you're referring to, I believe. I see the two front bolts closest to me to remove, just wanting to ensure do I remove these two bolts in this picture on the box to lift up?






Also, this is the pulley remover and installer tools I rented from Autozone. There are no instructions, so I'm not 100% sure of what to do with these pieces:




Then, this is what my current high pressure hose looks like, it popped off, but I'm not sure if there was any original piece that I still need that came off or not. Fluid spewed everywhere as you can see and made a mess. I was an idiot for driving it around without fixing this first, and the fluid has dried up, so I'm hoping there's not dried debris inside anything that I'll be needing that would cause issues.





My other question is do you think I will need to remove the wheel to access any bolts for the high pressure hose? And it was dark last night, so I may not have been able to see well, but should the return line to the pump be obvious and easy to remove as well?

This is the new hose I ordered.



Lastly, I have some questions about my tools. I picked up this basic tool kit and am hoping it will be sufficient for these jobs.




Also, I picked up Valvoline Dex/Merc ATF for the ps fluid. Is this the kind you recommended?

Lastly, this is the torque wrench I picked up.





I have never used one, nor have I ever torqued anything in my life. So I do have some questions on this as well. First, I see that the size of it is 1/2", should that fit any sockets I may need for these jobs or will I need to purchase an adapter? There was a 3/8" one but I couldn't tell which one I would need or if they would both get the job done. Second, for setting the right torque on the ps pump's bolts, the documentation I found states to tighten them to 30-45 ft lbs. Does this mean to pick a number between this range or is it tighten to 30 first then to 45? Some online sources I've looked up said two different things and got me all confused. Also, there's a picture with this documentation that says "tightening sequence" for the bolts on the bracket and it shows 1-4 in a certain order. How much torque do I apply at first? I think I've seen somewhere where it says 50% first, then 75%? I'm still confused really on using the torque wrench.

Thank you again for your help.
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