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Enough with the talk, time for the challenge.

46K views 509 replies 47 participants last post by  Casper 
#1 ·
Ok, as many of you know, I have been looking at the different options for ECU's in the I6. From this I have gained plenty of info but virtually no hard and fast facts. This is certainly not due to the suppliers not wanting to provide them, its more a case of over information. All have offered to answer my questions however the old saying of "talk is cheap" still applies.
I truely think that they all believe their method is the best, now I want to set it all to rest and come up with a definate answer.
As I see it there are 3 options:
1 Unichip
2 Xede
3 ECU reflash (highly unlikely I know but still an option)

So I put forward this challenge:
Using my car (as I know exactly how it feels in all cases and know exactly how fast it can run the ¼) I ask that the car is run on the dyno, as is, before the chip or edit is done. It is then to be tuned as best it can be and a comparison dyno run taken. It will then be run on a Friday night at Calder Park by myself no less than 6 times and all times recorded for comparison. This will also give me a “seat of the pants” feel for the car in normal driving conditions to and from Calder from which I will get a good idea what, if any, changes have happened to the car. The chip or edit is then yours to remove as I do not ask or expect to keep the chip.
Simple challenge but it will provide a significant amount of unquestionable and unarguable data. I will then post then post the results of the comparison on aufalcon.com along with the final word from the suppliers as to why these results were obtained. Data that would be considered “trade secret” will not be published as all I want is the figures provided by the challenge.

So now its time to put your chip where your advertising is. Who's going to be up to it?
 
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#2 ·
Casper said:
Ok, as many of you know, I have been looking at the different options for ECU's in the I6. From this I have gained plenty of info but virtually no hard and fast facts. This is certainly not due to the suppliers not wanting to provide them, its more a case of over information. All have offered to answer my questions however the old saying of "talk is cheap" still applies.
I truely think that they all believe their method is the best, now I want to set it all to rest and come up with a definate answer.
As I see it there are 3 options:
1 Unichip
2 Xede
3 ECU reflash (highly unlikely I know but still an option)

So I put forward this challenge:
Using my car (as I know exactly how it feels in all cases and know exactly how fast it can run the ¼) I ask that the car is run on the dyno, as is, before the chip or edit is done. It is then to be tuned as best it can be and a comparison dyno run taken. It will then be run on a Friday night at Calder Park by myself no less than 6 times and all times recorded for comparison. This will also give me a “seat of the pants” feel for the car in normal driving conditions to and from Calder from which I will get a good idea what, if any, changes have happened to the car. The chip or edit is then yours to remove as I do not ask or expect to keep the chip.
Simple challenge but it will provide a significant amount of unquestionable and unarguable data. I will then post then post the results of the comparison on aufalcon.com along with the final word from the suppliers as to why these results were obtained. Data that would be considered “trade secret” will not be published as all I want is the figures provided by the challenge.

So now its time to put your chip where your advertising is. Who's going to be up to it?
Too easy, APS and Unichip is up for the challenge.............bring it on. :driver:

Peter

APS
 
#3 ·
Great initiative, Casper. I'd be suprised if there was that much in it to make a difference but would be great to see how you go.

Can I suggest that you add to the plan a reasonable period of 'street time' as well. Non-strip drivability is important too... we don't want to adopt that Holden mentality of if it goes faster when you abuse it (and nothing more) then it's better.

Also, ensure that not any cocky tuner gets involved here. If we are going to compare options it needs to be done with a proper baseline - each promoters endorsed tuner.
 
#4 ·
AUGhiaV8 said:
Great initiative, Casper. I'd be suprised if there was that much in it to make a difference but would be great to see how you go.

Can I suggest that you add to the plan a reasonable period of 'street time' as well. Non-strip drivability is important too... we don't want to adopt that Holden mentality of if it goes faster when you abuse it (and nothing more) then it's better.

Also, ensure that not any cocky tuner gets involved here. If we are going to compare options it needs to be done with a proper baseline - each promoters endorsed tuner.
most poeple chip there car for performance thats why we spend the money while the drivability is most important, the good tuner will get the numbers and the only way you will test that is on the quarter and with the ET: and the gain in mph...
 
#5 ·
AUGhiaV8 said:
Great initiative, Casper. I'd be suprised if there was that much in it to make a difference but would be great to see how you go.

Can I suggest that you add to the plan a reasonable period of 'street time' as well. Non-strip drivability is important too... we don't want to adopt that Holden mentality of if it goes faster when you abuse it (and nothing more) then it's better.

Also, ensure that not any cocky tuner gets involved here. If we are going to compare options it needs to be done with a proper baseline - each promoters endorsed tuner.
I would love to have the chip for a few weeks but, in the end, they are running a business. This is certainly not just about outright speed, I will be takeing the car for a "significant" drive to feel it's performance. As for the dyno, I dont even car what the max HP reading is, it's irrelevant, what is relevant is the difference between the pre and post runs and, at least to me, the sub 3000rpm figures. This is, IMHO, where the I6 and particularly the VCT seems to suffer the most. I just want to see what one of these chips can do...then I'll hand it back. Of course, it goes without saying that the one that proves to be the best (and yes, best is subjective of course but any comparison is), will certainly get my business.
As for "cocky tuners", if they are interested then they can take the challenge however, as you said, it would be in the best interest if the "best" tuners were to participate. This would certainly give the best comparable results.
 
#6 ·
aps said:
Too easy, APS and Unichip is up for the challenge.............bring it on. :driver:

Peter

APS
With an attitude like that, when I get my 6t once uni is over, looks like I'll be getting a nice big phat phase 3 from you know who :thup:. Any other companies up to the challenge?
 
#8 ·
Out of intrest, what's the general going price for a Unichip and first off tuning for a 4.0 I6?
 
#10 ·
LG said:
Good stuff! Finally we can see some facts, and comparisons.

sales@chiptorque.com.au - Email them Casper and see if they want to join in?

JMM charge 1400 for fitting of unichip and tuning and dynoing.
2 answers, unichip fitted and tuned is $1250 -$1400

Chiptorque are well aware of the challenge. This is not going to be onesided, this is a legit challenge and everyone gets a fair shot!
 
#11 ·
That's an allright price, time to get some mods under the bonnet to make it worthwhile!
 
#12 ·
Guy's if you are thinking of getting a Unichip done, i say see if APS have the time to install and tune them there, because i believe that the tuner they have there is the best.
done a great job with Rods BA Pursuit also...
RRP is $1250
 
#13 ·
XRFPV8 said:
most poeple chip there car for performance thats why we spend the money while the drivability is most important, the good tuner will get the numbers and the only way you will test that is on the quarter and with the ET: and the gain in mph...
Spot on the higher the MPH the bigger the Horsepower, I think you call it the track dyno, Is that correct Mark?

Peter

APS
 
#15 ·
aps said:
Spot on the higher the MPH the bigger the Horsepower, I think you call it the track dyno, Is that correct Mark?

Peter

APS
quarter mile is the the black dyno...
i am learning so much about tuning lately, it must take many years to get it right..
 
#16 ·
thanks Mark and Peter. I'm glad this challenge is underway. Now, who else is prepared to take it? All it will cost is a little of your time but I think, from the looks of this thread already, the interest is certainly there with at least the AU owners not to mention a number of the E series guys.

Peter has taken the challenge, who else is willing to put the chip where the advertising is?
 
#18 ·
Will a modded engine cost more? It'll be fairly modded when I get around to chipping it.
 
#19 ·
Wow this has got a great response! Great to see you so eager to jump in and help out Peter.
 
#20 ·
I just want to say that, although Peter has come straight to the challenge (and no, he had no prior warning, in fact Peter and I had agreed to disagree a little while back so he really is going out of his way) I do want to clearly state that this is an open challenge and I would like it to be fair and equal. Thats why others have been invited to step forward. You never know it may come out that, at least for my car, another product may prove to be better.
What I can say is that so far APS has put up instead of shut up...and to me thats a great leap of faith.
 
#21 ·
Casper said:
thanks Mark and Peter. I'm glad this challenge is underway. Now, who else is prepared to take it? All it will cost is a little of your time but I think, from the looks of this thread already, the interest is certainly there with at least the AU owners not to mention a number of the E series guys.

Peter has taken the challenge, who else is willing to put the chip where the advertising is?
Hi Shane, i have an idea, as an incentive to get further parties involved perhaps you could offer the winner of the Challenge 6 months free avertising on AUfalcon.com say just the brand logo of there chip or ecu.
maybe on your enter page something like that..
what do you think ?
 
#22 ·
psycho chicken said:
Will a modded engine cost more? It'll be fairly modded when I get around to chipping it.
With mods like higher comp ratio or big camshafts (turbo or super chargers) this generally adds more dyno time to achieve a perfect state of engine tune.............so you can expect the cost to be a higher, maybe $100 to $200, maybe less depending on the extra time involved. :coo:

Peter

APS
 
#24 ·
XRFPV8 said:
Hi Shane, i have an idea, as an incentive to get further parties involved perhaps you could offer the winner of the Challenge 6 months free avertising on AUfalcon.com say just the brand logo of there chip or ecu.
maybe on your enter page something like that..
what do you think ?
Mmm, have to think about that one. Thing with aufalcon.com is it's not an advertising site. We have deliberatly done this so that nothing on it can be questioned as "biased". It is a self funded site that is there to give help, recognition and FACTS to the readers. We at no time have asked for mandatory payment for anything. All the up front costs were donated.
What I will say is that a PROMINANT article will be written about the challenge and the results. This article will be permanent and there for anyone to see. Included in the article I would hope to see video, images and
comments from the installers anyhow. I'm sure this would be incentive enough.
I guess what I'm saying is this is a legit challenge, with legit results. From that will be a prominant article where the winner (if there is a clearly defined winner) will speak for itself. And it will be permanently on the site.
 
#25 ·
Well done shane for laying down the challenge
Well done to Peter for having the confidance to be part of it

Having talked with peter about the unichip, i now know how and why it still is a fantastic tuning tool for any car with an ECU and how relevant and important a decent dyno facility is to getting accurate and good power gains

Look out in the not too distant future for "UNICHIP CHALLENGE #2- MANUAL XR8"
 
#26 ·
OK Folks, we have a challenge.
Lachlan from Chiptorque is up for it:

No problem. I'm up for it. Hardest part for a custom is you're in Melbourne. Anyways, that's not incurable. I'm sure Robbie Herrod or Amberley Auto would be up to the challenge too to help me out. From your comments though, I can see I've done a hopeless job of providing information to you guys regarding the EEC engine management mods. You seem to say that no-one has cracked them. We've been chipping them in the same way as we (and others) have been chipping the Commodores since the inception of ChipTorque in 1993. We use the J3 port on the end of the ECU for the Chip. That turns the internal one on the EEC board off and uses ours.

In answer to your questions. The XEDE has not been trialed on the AU series although it should work in theory. It is not currently configured at all for pre-AU models. Most of what ChipTorque supplies is "off the shelf" programs to suit popular modifications. Extractors and exhaust (based on pacemakers and 2.5") or Crow "549" grind cams in EA - EL I6 engines. Obviously the later normally requires rev limit and commanded idle speed changes etc. which cannot be done buy an interceptor.

Let me know what you have in mind and I'll see what we can arrange.

Lachlan Riddel

P.S. Post this back to the site if you wish.
 
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