Alternitive fuels - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars

big_red_truck · 07-09-2003, 22:17

Is anyone out there interested in alternitive power for cars? with the price of fuel where it is, we're going to need it soon. Personaly I am most interested in hydrogen as fuel for cars. I know that it will work with gasoline cars, but does any one have info on it's use with diesel? It seems that it would work better than gasoline engines but I am not sure. also, those of you on this forum with pilot's licence, how does hydrogen work with aircraft?

mongrelEB · 07-10-2003, 20:46

Try this link for fuel alcohol.

I keep meaning to try it myself, but don't have time to set up a still.

Since we run a dairy, I'll probably play with methane sometime shortly...

big_red_truck · 07-10-2003, 21:06

Fuel alcohol and methane are good, but you cant count on being able to find them any where other than your house. hydrogen you can get from water at any gas station hose. the other problem with fuel alcohol, at least in USA is the feds. I have heard of people that got the license to make and sell alcohol in order to make fuel alcohol. because they are making fuel alcohol instead of alcohol for human consumption, they are required to denature their alcohol so that you cant drink it. then, even though it cant be drunk, they had to pay the alcohol tax incase it was ever drunk!!!

mongrelEB · 07-10-2003, 23:56

True.
How are you planning to get hydrogen?
I found one of the cheaper ways to do it was using hydrochloric acid and aluminium cans...that produces a fair bit.

Was only playing with it though, and ran out of time before I came up with something workable (but not before losing my eyebrows! hehe)

pandaman · 07-11-2003, 07:31

That is one fairly efficient way of getting hydrogen, although some people might find hydrochloric acid a little hard to come by. A slightly more fiddly but more accessible way is to electrolyse water, ie. run a current through water and collect the gases coming off above each electrode, from memory negative produces the hydrogen and positive the oxygen.

http://www.theodoregray.com/Archive/...ydrogen/18.JPG

The above link is to a picture showing a very small and basic example of this process. That dude was just gonna collect both gases together coz they go boom quite a bit better than plain hydrogen as pure oxygen accelerates the combustion. For bettter results, use lotsa water, crank the current and also add a bit of acid to act as an electrolyte (Sulfuric acid is most commonly used).

cheers,
Pandaman

pandaman · 07-11-2003, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_red_truck

does any one have info on it's use with diesel?

That'd be interesting. My instinct is that it wouldn't work real well, but I'm on school holidays at the moment so my brain is having trouble explaining why it thinks that, and seeing as I've never compressed hydrogen until it explodes, (or at all) I dunno. If you find out anything more please post! Would be most interesting to know.

Cheers,
pandaman

big_red_truck · 07-11-2003, 20:32

I was thinking of electrolyse of water- I have heard of people that mounted a electrolyse cell on their car powered by the alternator. that seems to be the most workable solution to be able to find hydrogen anywhere. just throwing my idea out there on diesel- I know that oxegen and hydrogen in the right mix combine easely. I bet that the heat would do it. just a theory.

mongrelEB · 07-12-2003, 07:37

Don't you need a hell of a lot of juice to create hydrogen from water?
I'm pretty sure that the power required would equal the power gained = you would use all you fuel just producing more?

Quote:

although some people might find hydrochloric acid a little hard to come by.

Why? Any pool or chemical place ie Big Bubble will sell it to you - one approved use is for cleaning bricks.

big_red_truck · 07-12-2003, 20:26

[QUOTE=mongrelEB]Don't you need a hell of a lot of juice to create hydrogen from water?
I'm pretty sure that the power required would equal the power gained = you would use all you fuel just producing more?

I'm not clear on how the efficency works- it depends on how you look at it. one side says that because efficency is not 100% it won't work. the other side says that (this is hard to explain) say an engine makes 100 Hp attached to it is a 10 kw genorator that requires 18 Hp which is attached to a electrolyzer. the thinking goes that this electrolyzer can make enough hydrogen to power the original engine. shaky I know, but people are actualy using this system very Successfully, and the real world is the final proving Ground. so in short, I beleve the later.

mongrelEB · 07-13-2003, 02:28

Well I'm not a sparky so don't know for sure about generators and so on. Would definitely be interested in seeing any further research on the subject.
But until then I stand by what I said - to back it up, I present this for consideration: If you run an electric motor with a dynamo, will it power itself? The self-perpetuating engine has been sought after for many years now by many people....