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Old 12-16-2004, 21:39   #1 (permalink)
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BA MkII a Fizzer

I was recently flamed on here for suggesting that shock horror the BA MkII was a fizzer. Well it appears people have voted with their feet and now Ford Falcon sales lag 3300 units behind that of Commodores when it was within a few hundred on a year ago.

Lets look at the facts shall we and cut out any pro-ford patriotic BS. The BA MkII offered no credible improvements. A selection of new paint colours is NOT what I nor many people would consider a credible model revamp, the MKII title is simply marketing BS.

Sure the BAXR6T got a great 6 speed manual, but did that mean the entire rest of the BA series needed to be deemed MKII?? Wheres the improvements on these models, when Holden only months before released a new V6 motor??

When you are the underdog, you can't start getting lazy, and thats exactly what Ford did with BA MkII. They are now paying the price... Literally.
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Old 12-16-2004, 21:47   #2 (permalink)
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Re: BA MkII a Fizzer

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngNstupid
I was recently flamed on here for suggesting that shock horror the BA MkII was a fizzer. Well it appears people have voted with their feet and now Ford Falcon sales lag 3300 units behind that of Commodores when it was within a few hundred on a year ago.

Lets look at the facts shall we and cut out any pro-ford patriotic BS. The BA MkII offered no credible improvements. A selection of new paint colours is NOT what I nor many people would consider a credible model revamp, the MKII title is simply marketing BS.

Sure the BAXR6 got a great 6 speed manual, but did that mean the entire rest of the BA series needed to be deemed MKII??

When you are the underdog, you can't start getting lazy, and thats exactly what Ford did with BA MkII. They are now paying the price... Literally.
I dunno mate, the RACQ awarded it the best family car over the commodore. they mention the new alloytech in the commodore cant match the power and smoothness of the falcon 4.0 litre. i guess ford could have changed some things, but honestly ask yourself:

what would you change?

it's a multiaward winning package which the commodore still hasnt caught upto. if you add extra's it pushes up manufacturing costs which drives up the final price. i believe that wouldnt help ford much either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngNstupid
Wheres the improvements on these models, when Holden only months before released a new V6 motor??
you mean the motor which holden spent god knows how much on - which suprisingly performs and sounds like the 15year old 3.8 ecotech.......?

fords are still catching up in sales - they were never infront before the MKII so one would assume they still wouldnt be. it needs to be RAMMED HOME to the people. advertising advertising advertising advertising advertising advertising advertising advertising advertising advertising . FORD NEEDS THIS.
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Old 12-16-2004, 21:53   #3 (permalink)
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Re: BA MkII a Fizzer

actually, to add to that. everytime you turn on the tv you get slapped by holden ads. commodore isnt outselling falcon because it's better - it's outselling falcon because holden's advertising team have the skill and sheer budget to convince you to buy their car instead of the competition. cant remember the last time i saw a ford add - except for those absolutely shocking mates rates ones. those DONT work.
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Old 12-16-2004, 21:54   #4 (permalink)
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Re: BA MkII a Fizzer

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngNstupid
I was recently flamed on here for suggesting that shock horror the BA MkII was a fizzer. Well it appears people have voted with their feet and now Ford Falcon sales lag 3300 units behind that of Commodores when it was within a few hundred on a year ago.
and you have ahrdcore evidence of this?

Quote:
Lets look at the facts shall we and cut out any pro-ford patriotic BS. The BA MkII offered no credible improvements. A selection of new paint colours is NOT what I nor many people would consider a credible model revamp, the MKII title is simply marketing BS.
maybe YOU need to look at the feature list of BA 1 to BA 2. As the name of the car suggests, it is a series update. Honestly the XT is awesome value for money. 182kw engine, great interior and decent features for a base model car.

Quote:
Sure the BAXR6T got a great 6 speed manual, but did that mean the entire rest of the BA series needed to be deemed MKII?? Wheres the improvements on these models, when Holden only months before released a new V6 motor??

When you are the underdog, you can't start getting lazy, and thats exactly what Ford did with BA MkII. They are now paying the price... Literally.
so ford need to rid of their proven I6 becuase Holden got a new engine? Give me a reason why they needed to update it? How is Ford being lazy? Why spend all your R&D on an small update? I think they did well with the MK2 and I am sorry but I totally disagree with you on every point.
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Old 12-16-2004, 21:55   #5 (permalink)
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Re: BA MkII a Fizzer

The facts must be looked at before any judgement is made. Holden offer greater incentives to dealers for Commodore, basically if you walk into a Holden dealer and have an ABN the Holden dealer gets a subsidy to pass on as a discount to the ABN holder. Ford only offer this on all Ford commercial vehicles and the Explorer, but not Falcon. National fleet pricing is also more generous at Holden than Ford.

If you look at private sales alone you will find that often the sales lead is exchanged between both Holden and Ford every month, this obviously means that fleet sales is where Holden have a big lead.

How do I know this? I worked at Holden dealer.
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Old 12-16-2004, 22:09   #6 (permalink)
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Re: BA MkII a Fizzer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Lurker
and you have ahrdcore evidence of this?
Sure, go buy a Wheels magazine some day. Has monthly sales for the top 20 selling vehicles in Australia.

October 2004:
1. Holden Commodore - 7869 Sales
2. Ford Falcon - 4512 Sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Lurker
maybe YOU need to look at the feature list of BA 1 to BA 2. As the name of the car suggests, it is a series update. Honestly the XT is awesome value for money. 182kw engine, great interior and decent features for a base model car.
Whether or not it was a great almost 3 years ago is irrelevent. There was no real improvements on the BA MkII from the BA Series 1. Are you really trying to suggest people will flock to BA MkII because they can get it in a new colour?? The idea is absurd and it's why Ford Falcons continue to plummet in sales. I can quite understand people flocking to a VZ Falcon because of a new engine however. You can't create new sales through new colours, it just WON'T WORK. Have you ever heard someone saying "ohh i'm waiting for the new series so I can get a new colour for it". Come off it.

I would have liked to have seen some real improvements on the BA MKII. Even some proper exterior changes such as new headlights, spoilers or tail lights would have been better then new paint colours. Perhaps they should have held off a little longer and hooked up a 5 Speed Auto to replace the old EA 4 speed slushbox that BA's currently run.

So to answer your question ANYTHING would have been better then new paint colours being the big BA MkII highlight. Once again, they are the underdog, they can not afford to get lazy like this or as we have seen people vote with their feet.
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Old 12-16-2004, 22:17   #7 (permalink)
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Re: BA MkII a Fizzer

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngNstupid
I would have liked to have seen some real improvements on the BA MKII. Even some proper exterior changes such as new headlights, spoilers or tail lights would have been better then new paint colours. Perhaps they should have held off a little longer and hooked up a 5 Speed Auto to replace the old EA 4 speed slushbox that BA's currently run.
wow.. headlights spoilers and tailights would change people's opinions for sure. im not sure what you mean by change? if you mean change their basic shape that inturn means changing body panels which meet up around the lights. bumper panels, bonnets, and 2 front quarter panels on each side and not to mention the rear quarter panels and finally boot and bumper. not worth it IMO. aside from the fact that these would possibly only come at a critisicm of the judges for offering no real gains for the car.
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Old 12-16-2004, 22:20   #8 (permalink)
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Re: BA MkII a Fizzer

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngNstupid
Sure, go buy a Wheels magazine some day. Has monthly sales for the top 20 selling vehicles in Australia.

October 2004:
1. Holden Commodore - 7869 Sales
2. Ford Falcon - 4512 Sales
wooooopeeeee doooo one month....

check out this :
November 04 VFacts

seems november was pretty good.

Quote:
Whether or not it was a great almost 3 years ago is irrelevent. There was no real improvements on the BA MkII from the BA Series 1. Are you really trying to suggest people will flock to BA MkII because they can get it in a new colour?? The idea is absurd and it's why Ford Falcons continue to plummet in sales. I can quite understand people flocking to a VZ Falcon because of a new engine however. You can't create new sales through new colours, it just WON'T WORK. Have you ever heard someone saying "ohh i'm waiting for the new series so I can get a new colour for it". Come off it.

I would have liked to have seen some real improvements on the BA MKII. Even some proper exterior changes such as new headlights, spoilers or tail lights would have been better then new paint colours. Perhaps they should have held off a little longer and hooked up a 5 Speed Auto to replace the old EA 4 speed slushbox that BA's currently run.

So to answer your question ANYTHING would have been better then new paint colours being the big BA MkII highlight. Once again, they are the underdog, they can not afford to get lazy like this or as we have seen people vote with their feet.
so what would they do for the next model??????
as it has been said before it is ONLY an update not a new model, with some refinements. maybe they are testing new components for the new model and will bring a new slushbox out with it. The main BUDGET would be for the next model i am sure of that.

so i assume you work at Ford???? otherwise you wouldn't have a clue if they are being lazy or not...hmmmm???
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Old 12-16-2004, 22:24   #9 (permalink)
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Re: BA MkII a Fizzer

youngNstupid i dont think we are being biased here. but nightlurker is right too. it's like an update from EF to EL, same car with refinements
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Old 12-16-2004, 22:25   #10 (permalink)
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Re: BA MkII a Fizzer

The only thing that needed changing with BAII to compete with VZ was engine output of the sports models. XR8 with 260kW was getting raped by 235kW SS... so the current 250kW SS will more then stomp it. Boss290 in the XR8.. and something like a Boss320 made for the GT would've been perfect. XR6 Turbo was always fine with 240kW (faster then XR8, as fast as SS) so it could be left that way as a budget performance option. Shame its now $46,750 instead of $43,750 though.
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