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Old 08-18-2002, 21:55   #1 (permalink)
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BA, most updated Falcon ever?

Just thinking is this the first time that a new model has new engines, suspension, body panels (admitadely not doors/roof) and interior. Even 'all new' models such as XD and EA didnt seem to change as much. XD got the body and interior but XE got coil springs and EFI eventually. EA got the body and engines but no new rear suspension, EB got the quality....AU got the body and suspension but no engine updates except for VCT.

Makes BA especially significant even without the extra innovations.
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Old 08-18-2002, 22:03   #2 (permalink)
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I don't think I'd necessarily agree with that. It's difficult to measure this in comparative terms. Here are a few points to consider:

The XD's mechanicals may not have changed much, but the body itself was an overwhelming leap over the XC. It was much smaller on the outside, considerably bigger on the inside, and massive weight savings were made. However, it cannot win the 'most updated' award.

The EA spelled the end of carbys, 4 speed manual, pushrods, non-existant aerodynamics and the like. If it wasn't for an update late in the XF's life, EA would have been first with power steer and 4 wheel disc brakes across the range. It's easy to dismiss all these major innovations because we take it for granted now, but personally I liken the BA more to the EF Falcon - which had innovations of its own such as a major re-styling, an airbag, and refinements such as a re-working of the engine. The BA is to my mind, however, the most significant MID LIFE reworking of a Falcon ever. I think it has the XE beaten hands down.

Another point is that the AU did get serious engine refinements, but few people give this the credit it deserves because the power and torque outputs remained unchanged while fuel consumption and refinement went in the right direction instead.

But the most revolutionary Falcon is clearly the EA to my mind.
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Old 08-18-2002, 23:31   #3 (permalink)
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Re: BA, most updated Falcon ever?

Quote:
Originally posted by xr6-95pilot
(admitadely not doors/roof)
The roof is new, has been lowered and flattened 4cm. (correct the measurement if I'm wrong, but I know it's been flattened)
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Old 08-18-2002, 23:32   #4 (permalink)
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Absolutely right xr6-95pilot.

Jack - as we all know, the only things untouched from AU to Barra are the doors. Everything else has been altered. That's a pretty comprehensive list of changes IMO, and certainly more in number and magnitude than from XF to EA.

I wouldn't compare the AU->BA change with ED-EF. The ED-EF change consisted of new front / rear ends, and new dash. Very little was done engine-wise or chassis-wise. Yes they did a little "tweaking" of the suspension, and added a rats clacker of power, but it was more of a facelift than anything.

I would go so far as to say, that the drivetrain upgrades alone would constitute the BA being the most advanced model upgrade yet. That is besides the interior, the chassis, the safety features, and the "unmentioned Australian automotive industry firsts".

Not saying the EA wasn't a big step ahead, it certainly did introduce a lot of firsts! Just nowhere near as many as the BA has.
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Old 08-18-2002, 23:47   #5 (permalink)
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comparing the EA to BA in regards to development and changes, does everyone think that it will enherant problems just like the EA?
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Old 08-18-2002, 23:49   #6 (permalink)
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A few good points have been raised Mr Sparkle. Might as well see if I have anything to add. Of course this debate is nothing more than a bit of trivia for everyone.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Sparkle
Jack - as we all know, the only things untouched from AU to Barra are the doors. Everything else has been altered. That's a pretty comprehensive list of changes IMO, and certainly more in number and magnitude than from XF to EA.
I cannot comment on that. Are the transmissions new? Is the front suspension new? The AU was not a bad car - the only problem was the lack of 'showroom' technolgical innovation and platable styling. This is being addressed, and the car generally heading more upmarket.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Sparkle
I wouldn't compare the AU->BA change with ED-EF. The ED-EF change consisted of new front / rear ends, and new dash. Very little was done engine-wise or chassis-wise. Yes they did a little "tweaking" of the suspension, and added a rats clacker of power, but it was more of a facelift than anything.
Not quite true. While the $220 million budget of the EF is less than half what is being spent on BA, the result was the same. All-new styling bar the doors (and possibly the roof) and an all-new interior, the industry-first of an airbag on all models and a heavily revised engine were all there. The BA goes a step further and instead of mere refinements (such as dual-length inlet manifold) is pushing the technological boundaries (by Falcon standards) with DOHC and IRS the key updates. So yes it is a cut above EF for this reason.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Sparkle
I would go so far as to say, that the drivetrain upgrades alone would constitute the BA being the most advanced model upgrade yet. That is besides the interior, the chassis, the safety features, and the "unmentioned Australian automotive industry firsts".
If the BA was introducing a 5 speed automatic, that could be the case. Instead, it is debatable.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Sparkle
Not saying the EA wasn't a big step ahead, it certainly did introduce a lot of firsts! Just nowhere near as many as the BA has.
I guess we'll find out upon the car's release. :)

There are aspects of the EA's innovation that are difficult to give due credit on paper. It was a radical change to the Falcon formula and affected not only things like styling and engines, but details like the aforementioned aerodynamics. The cd figure went from 0.42 to 0.34 according to my sources. The EF brought that down to 0.31, and AU reached a low of 0.29. Will BA improve on this? That is one of many examples I could go into, but for now we'd better just agree to disagree.
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Old 08-18-2002, 23:52   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by kinobi
comparing the EA to BA in regards to development and changes, does everyone think that it will enherant problems just like the EA?
It is a question that cannot be answered yet. Take a look at history:

EA: major innovation, major quality problems (though more rumour than fact IMO)
EF: limited innovation, limited quality problems
AU: limited innovation, limited quality problems
BA: major innovation, ???? quality problems
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Old 08-18-2002, 23:58   #8 (permalink)
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i think in addition to jacks above post about the quality issues we must be aware of the mindset, when EA rolled around ford were well ahead of holden and had become complacent, to an extent, and through this complacency, quality control suffered, when the time for EF and AU came round the market was demanding a much higher quality, as the trend had been right throughout the 10 years or so since the EA for all local manufacturers.

Now with the BA ford know they must get it right, and have been aiming for very high quality right from the outset, we have all heard how they have been impressed with the build quality of the test mules even, so in theory, the BA will be a high quality car, lets just hope ford don't prove the theory wrong....
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Old 08-19-2002, 00:04   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack_Travis
EA: major innovation, major quality problems (though more rumour than fact IMO)
EF: limited innovation, limited quality problems
AU: limited innovation, limited quality problems
BA: major innovation, ???? quality problems
Interesting point Jack_Travis. Personally i have always been one to go for the second or third generation cars for this reason alone. it's gonna be interesting times me thinks.
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Old 08-19-2002, 00:12   #10 (permalink)
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if you want and interesting read, go over to blueovalnews.com and read some of the articles about the modular engine. very cynical about the whole lot as gfar as stating that its a flawed design due to cost cutting measures.
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