BA: yes we all Love Fords but... - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
The Pub For General Discussion

View Poll Results: yes I would like to see a Hillers type, two door Ford produced?
Strongly agree (351 standard) 32 50.00%
Agree (Tickford:347 option) 7 10.94%
Wait and see 10 15.63%
Disagree 15 23.44%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 6
Thumbs down BA: yes we all Love Fords but...

When is Jeff going to wake-up? 250 kW doesn’t cut the mustard. Any consumer knows, when standing two products side-by side, comparisons are made as to the best performance for your money. Ford just doesn’t understand the basic Australian male psyche, consumers will sacrifice price for performance, its small mans syndrome. Two cars side-by-side at the lights, car versus car, man versus man, I'm going to make sure mines bigger than his. As primitive as this sounds its an evolution in the way men think about there cars, gone are the days of consumer loyalty, today’s buyer thinks with his foot, (lead foot that is!). Young Australian males have been bought-up on a diet of fast, turbocharged, pocket rockets when is Ford going to realise that if it is going to re-capture that part of market lost to Holden, (the performance market), than it is also going to have to compete with Subaru and Mitsubishi. Ford make great family cars and one-toners, that traditional consumers will by, but the new younger breed want performance and if you can't produce a power for pound car, then you're just not going to compete.

P.S. (front styling lines are to close to the XJ Jaguar series, lets show some originality please!)

I wonder if this car is going to cause the sensation the Monaro is about to in the U.S. Reading through some American car sites, they can't wait to get their hands on it, is the new BA, going to cause this sought of excitement overseas? I don't think so, And why not? I have two degrees, one in marketing and am fully aware of the viability of production lines and market segments, common Jeff lets get with the program, hot and heavy is the way togo, have a look at the Hillers Arrow!

“Start with an extreme machine and work down to form a base model, not a base model and work upto a performance car.”
TT398WIN is offline  
Sponsored Links
post #2 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 06:39 PM
BOF's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: 250km West of Perth
Posts: 1,120
I got as far as "When is JEFF"...
BOF is offline  
post #3 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 06:39 PM
Australian EB Fairmont Ghia Member
eb_5litre's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Newcastle NSW
Posts: 1,151
hehe.. same here

Signatures are for poofs !!

1993 EBII Fairmont Ghia 5.0L Wagon,
Lowered, Tinted, 17" Speedy Ravens & 2.5" Sports Exhaust.
( 1 of 26 built )


1985 Telstar TX5 Turbo, stock as a rock.
eb_5litre is offline  
post #4 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 06:42 PM
Last of the Good Ones
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 172
Hey TT398WIN you need to grow a dick. Since when was 250 kw not enough grunt?

How easily people forget that power is not everything. Torque is king, and the curve over the rev range is GOD. A car with 180 kw can kick ass over a car with 250 kw if it has a better torque curve.

This is coming from an Aerospace Engineering degree with design experience, not a Marketing degree.


PS. I'll have none of you 18yo P-platers out there tell me different.

[runs and hides]


If it ain't broke don't fix it.
BRING_BACK_XF is offline  
post #5 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 06:43 PM
Registered User
Falchoon's Avatar
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 3,544
You could be right, even Steve Liberman on the Today Show this morning was asking the question about what's under the bonnet nd how much power has it got and he is one of the most conservative guys around.

Ford's bread and butter is the average 6cyl Forte or Fairmont, not XR or T-Series so I see them (Ford) as doing the right thing there by adding to the base car rather than dumbing down the upmarket version. But that's just my opinion.

Most of us folk that post here at FF are car enthusists (read: revheads) where too much power is not enough so we aren't really the average demographic to go off.

I say let Tickford look after the performance side of things as HSV does with Holden.

EDIT: The guy's name is Geoff...

You know, somebody actually complimented me on my driving today. They left a little note on the windscreen. It said, 'Parking Fine.'So that was nice.

Falchoon is offline  
post #6 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 06:45 PM
Nacho Nacho Man!
Venom XR's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Vic
Age: 43
Posts: 3,514
Firstly, it's Geoff!

Secondly, the Windsor/Cleveland engine is not a production engine anymore.

Thirdly, whilst creating an absolute storm of hype, and helping polarise attention to the Holden brand, Monaro is not selling in wild numbers to justify Ford doing the same from a production point of view, nor is their any image excitement to be gained from it - we've missed the boat on that one.

What is more realistic is a hot GT, with a 300+kW 5.4l DOHC V8. The GT name plate means a lot more than a large sedan minus 2 doors. Perhaps one day we'll see a hi-po AWD version, and that again, would mean more to those buyers you mentioned than a coupe. You mentioned turbo-charged rockets - look how popular the VL Turbo is. So Ford has reacted, and is rumoured to be releasing a turbo XR6.

Catch up to now. The 347ci Tickford option is dead, that engine is dead. The Hillier stroker is a tiny-volume, aftermarket super-special. Spending more money removing two doors isn't going to save Fords bacon.

A real GT, a turbo XR6, a hyper XR8 based on the great new Bara car is what we need.

The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people it is a complete substitute for a life. - Andrew Brown
Venom XR is offline  
post #7 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 06:53 PM
Territory TS - AWD
RAPTOR's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Kiama, NSW, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 2,374
Well I actually read it all but this is the only bit I agree with;

...Ford make great family cars and one-toners....
But then again I am one of those traditional middle aged buyers so what would I know.
I'll take Nm over kW any day in a road car.
No small mans (dick?) syndrome here. :s6:

Territory - WHEELS COTY
RAPTOR is offline  
post #8 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 06:53 PM
Last of the Good Ones
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 172
I would like to retract my last post further up the page.

I'm pissed off at work today and got a little out of hand. Sorry to TT398WIN, a new member - welcome to FF.

I've had a Violet Crumble and cooled down.

Sorry again everyone.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
BRING_BACK_XF is offline  
post #9 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 6
Who would have thought a 5.7 ltre gen III chevy engine would have met the demographic of consumers? You can't build a competitive car market on reaction based designing. Holden have been innovators in predicting what the market wanted, while Ford have strayed into the never, never with the AU range. Holden realised sales are linked to performance, (KW not torque, from a sales perspective nobody in the average market looks at torque figures!) thus there focus on HRT. What did Ford do, follow there concept years later, how did they do it? steal a holden driver and an ex-holden team manager. Com'on guys I don't like giving Holden credit, but when are we going to become the innovators and not the followers? Geoff get in touch with your consumers. Holden did ten years ago thats why there market leaders now!
TT398WIN is offline  
post #10 of 77 (permalink) Old 07-15-02, 07:12 PM
Last of the Good Ones
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 172
I totally agree TT398WIN - power figures are the main marketing point with new cars. Shifting torque curves up the rev range to push up kw while not really improving the performance is a good way to sell cars.

I heard someone from Ford say once that although the Ford has a better handling, cornering, braking car and generally better everywhere, the Holden wins out on sales because of slightly higher kw.

Classic "mine's bigger than yours" syndrome.

Where you get the real picture is in Wheels magazine etc where they write a full story on the comparison, they usually talk about torque and how the car pulls in different situations etc.

The only problem with these articles is that they NEVER compare equals between Ford/Holden - it's always something like an SS against a Futura or an Acclaim against a Forte or some David and Goliath battle, so the Holden always looks better.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
BRING_BACK_XF is offline  
Sponsored Links

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > Fordforums Community > The Pub

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BA Falcon Interior Reveal RPO83 Ford Worldwide News 5 09-16-03 07:12 PM
A CENTURY OF VISION: Fords built city, changed the world Stacy94PGT Ford Worldwide News 0 03-12-03 08:17 AM
BA engines in older fords HO HO HO! The Pub 13 09-26-02 09:02 AM
BA article JEM The Pub 6 07-19-02 06:38 AM
Is it love?? Lust?? or Marriage?? Merlin Ford Probe Forum | Mazda MX6 Forum 9 12-15-01 12:09 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome