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View Poll Results: yes I would like to see a Hillers type, two door Ford produced?
Strongly agree (351 standard) 32 50.00%
Agree (Tickford:347 option) 7 10.94%
Wait and see 10 15.63%
Disagree 15 23.44%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-15-2002, 17:28   #1 (permalink)
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Thumbs down BA: yes we all Love Fords but...

When is Jeff going to wake-up? 250 kW doesn’t cut the mustard. Any consumer knows, when standing two products side-by side, comparisons are made as to the best performance for your money. Ford just doesn’t understand the basic Australian male psyche, consumers will sacrifice price for performance, its small mans syndrome. Two cars side-by-side at the lights, car versus car, man versus man, I'm going to make sure mines bigger than his. As primitive as this sounds its an evolution in the way men think about there cars, gone are the days of consumer loyalty, today’s buyer thinks with his foot, (lead foot that is!). Young Australian males have been bought-up on a diet of fast, turbocharged, pocket rockets when is Ford going to realise that if it is going to re-capture that part of market lost to Holden, (the performance market), than it is also going to have to compete with Subaru and Mitsubishi. Ford make great family cars and one-toners, that traditional consumers will by, but the new younger breed want performance and if you can't produce a power for pound car, then you're just not going to compete.

P.S. (front styling lines are to close to the XJ Jaguar series, lets show some originality please!)

I wonder if this car is going to cause the sensation the Monaro is about to in the U.S. Reading through some American car sites, they can't wait to get their hands on it, is the new BA, going to cause this sought of excitement overseas? I don't think so, And why not? I have two degrees, one in marketing and am fully aware of the viability of production lines and market segments, common Jeff lets get with the program, hot and heavy is the way togo, have a look at the Hillers Arrow!

“Start with an extreme machine and work down to form a base model, not a base model and work upto a performance car.”
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Old 07-15-2002, 17:39   #2 (permalink)
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I got as far as "When is JEFF"...
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Old 07-15-2002, 17:39   #3 (permalink)
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hehe.. same here
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Old 07-15-2002, 17:42   #4 (permalink)
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Hey TT398WIN you need to grow a dick. Since when was 250 kw not enough grunt?

How easily people forget that power is not everything. Torque is king, and the curve over the rev range is GOD. A car with 180 kw can kick ass over a car with 250 kw if it has a better torque curve.

This is coming from an Aerospace Engineering degree with design experience, not a Marketing degree.

Pffffffttt!

PS. I'll have none of you 18yo P-platers out there tell me different.

[runs and hides]

:)
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Old 07-15-2002, 17:43   #5 (permalink)
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You could be right, even Steve Liberman on the Today Show this morning was asking the question about what's under the bonnet nd how much power has it got and he is one of the most conservative guys around.

Ford's bread and butter is the average 6cyl Forte or Fairmont, not XR or T-Series so I see them (Ford) as doing the right thing there by adding to the base car rather than dumbing down the upmarket version. But that's just my opinion.

Most of us folk that post here at FF are car enthusists (read: revheads) where too much power is not enough so we aren't really the average demographic to go off.

I say let Tickford look after the performance side of things as HSV does with Holden.

EDIT: The guy's name is Geoff...
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Old 07-15-2002, 17:45   #6 (permalink)
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Firstly, it's Geoff!

Secondly, the Windsor/Cleveland engine is not a production engine anymore.

Thirdly, whilst creating an absolute storm of hype, and helping polarise attention to the Holden brand, Monaro is not selling in wild numbers to justify Ford doing the same from a production point of view, nor is their any image excitement to be gained from it - we've missed the boat on that one.

What is more realistic is a hot GT, with a 300+kW 5.4l DOHC V8. The GT name plate means a lot more than a large sedan minus 2 doors. Perhaps one day we'll see a hi-po AWD version, and that again, would mean more to those buyers you mentioned than a coupe. You mentioned turbo-charged rockets - look how popular the VL Turbo is. So Ford has reacted, and is rumoured to be releasing a turbo XR6.

Catch up to now. The 347ci Tickford option is dead, that engine is dead. The Hillier stroker is a tiny-volume, aftermarket super-special. Spending more money removing two doors isn't going to save Fords bacon.

A real GT, a turbo XR6, a hyper XR8 based on the great new Bara car is what we need.
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Old 07-15-2002, 17:53   #7 (permalink)
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Well I actually read it all but this is the only bit I agree with;

Quote:
...Ford make great family cars and one-toners....
But then again I am one of those traditional middle aged buyers so what would I know.
I'll take Nm over kW any day in a road car.
No small mans (dick?) syndrome here. :s6:
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Old 07-15-2002, 17:53   #8 (permalink)
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I would like to retract my last post further up the page.

I'm pissed off at work today and got a little out of hand. Sorry to TT398WIN, a new member - welcome to FF.

I've had a Violet Crumble and cooled down.

Sorry again everyone.
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Old 07-15-2002, 17:59   #9 (permalink)
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Who would have thought a 5.7 ltre gen III chevy engine would have met the demographic of consumers? You can't build a competitive car market on reaction based designing. Holden have been innovators in predicting what the market wanted, while Ford have strayed into the never, never with the AU range. Holden realised sales are linked to performance, (KW not torque, from a sales perspective nobody in the average market looks at torque figures!) thus there focus on HRT. What did Ford do, follow there concept years later, how did they do it? steal a holden driver and an ex-holden team manager. Com'on guys I don't like giving Holden credit, but when are we going to become the innovators and not the followers? Geoff get in touch with your consumers. Holden did ten years ago thats why there market leaders now!
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Old 07-15-2002, 18:12   #10 (permalink)
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I totally agree TT398WIN - power figures are the main marketing point with new cars. Shifting torque curves up the rev range to push up kw while not really improving the performance is a good way to sell cars.

I heard someone from Ford say once that although the Ford has a better handling, cornering, braking car and generally better everywhere, the Holden wins out on sales because of slightly higher kw.

Classic "mine's bigger than yours" syndrome.

Where you get the real picture is in Wheels magazine etc where they write a full story on the comparison, they usually talk about torque and how the car pulls in different situations etc.

The only problem with these articles is that they NEVER compare equals between Ford/Holden - it's always something like an SS against a Futura or an Acclaim against a Forte or some David and Goliath battle, so the Holden always looks better.
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