Curfews for Teenage Drivers - Some Counter Arguments - Ford Forums

Mr Greed · 07-18-2004, 20:23

Whilst put forward with the best of intentions I seriously question whether curfews are the answer to teenage road deaths. There seems to be more cons than pros in the idea although with narrow minded 'champions' of road safety such as Harold Scruby (how's the pedestrian council get funding from the govt for road safety when it's run by a fashion designer????) and ill informed editors of Newspapers pushing the cause we may just see this happen.

I think the NMAA press release offers a very good counter argument. Whilst I recognise some people will see this as a political statement you must recognise that almost all the stuff we hear about road safety ios generated by releases such as that below:

> Media Enquiries
> Marshall Peters
> National Media Spokesperson
> phone 0883 379 732 or e-mail
> marshall.peters@s... <mailto:marshall.peters@s...>
>
>
> TEENAGE ROAD DEATHS
>
The National Motorists Association of Australia (NMAA) is pushing to reduce road fatalities involving young drivers. "Teenage road deaths have become a cycle of tragedy. Action can be taken to break the cycle" says NMAA spokeman Marshall Peters. "Our proposal explains the practical aspects of an important step forward in averting these road tragedies."

Mr Peters said that "The National Motorists Association of Australia actively promotes road safety. Our greatest concern is that Australian road fatality ratios have plateaued since 1997. This has occurred despite the raft of safety improvements now built into cars such as ABS brakes, crumple zones, front and side airbags etc. There is little more that manufacturers can do to reduce road deaths. The next step must be to improve the defensive driving capability of drivers."

In explaining the specifics of the proposal, Mr Peters said "Federal Transport Minister John Anderson, the Australian CEOs of the major car manufacturers and the NMAA are calling for an improvement in the standard of driver training. The proposal is a compulsory defensive driver training course for inexperienced drivers. Specifically, the NMAA recommendation is that all P-plate drivers must complete a one day compulsory defensive driving course before progressing from red to green P-plates. To date, the State Governments have preferred that inexperienced drivers learn by trial and error on public roads."

"With the exception of requiring a minimum number of hours experience we
have an inadequate driver training system. Learners are restricted to
80kmh. With that restriction, they cannot learn to drive at freeway speeds while under instruction or even how to overtake safely. A practical test of fifteen minutes duration, dominated by a reverse park and a three point turn is of limited value. The present system gives new drivers a licence and turns them loose on the highways. Then we wonder why they crash" says Mr Peters.

Asked if P-plate curfews could reduce teenage road fatalities, Mr Peters
said "Recently, an overseas based road safety expert has suggested that
curfews can curb crashes. Countries that use curfews have a much lower
minimum driving age of 15 years. For Australia, the concept of driver curfews is impractical. A pedestrian curfew is just as impractical, even though pedestrians are statistically more prone to road deaths at night.

Curfews are a superficial band-aid and, at best, an attempt to be seen
to be doing something. A well founded and long term solution is needed."

When questioned about statistical evidence to support his statements, Mr
Peters responded by saying "Restricting new drivers by low speed limits,
curfews or other restrictions teaches them nothing. An inadequate level
of driver training is evident in road statistics. On a kilometres travelled basis, drivers aged between 17 and 20 are 11 times more likely to be killed in a road accident than older drivers (the 40 to 49 age group). Road fatalities account for one in three deaths for Australians aged between 15 and 24. The significant factor is not the age of these drivers but the extent of their driver training. Part of the responsibility for young drivers' crashes lies with those who refuse to improve the standard of driver training. Prohibition has proven to be a failed technique for correcting problems. We must think and act more
positively."

Mr Peters pointed to action that State Governments take with their own
drivers by explaining that "The State Governments have been opposed to
training drivers beyond the most basic standard. Yet they provide training for their own police drivers and bus drivers. This double standard has outraged road safety groups for years."

> This statement on behalf of the National Motorists Association of
> Australia
> is authorised by NMAA Vice President Harry Wood at sigti1@b...
> 41 Grandview Drive, Hillbank, South Australia 5112
> and issued by
> Graham Pryor
> pryorg@a...
>
> For further comment, contact NMAA National Media Spokesperson
Marshall Peters by e-mailing marshall.peters <mailto:marshall.peters@senet.com.au > State contacts are listed below -
>
> NSW: Michael Lane at michaellane@o...
> phone (02) 9449 7718 or 0402 431 703
>
> QLD: Jim Wright at jim_wri@h...
> phone (07) 3844 4035 or 0403 066 986
>
> VIC: Matthew Wren at sr071@o...
>
> STH AUST: Marshall Peters marshall.peters@s...
> phone (08) 8337 8732
>
> TAS: Mark Cunningham jakka@y... <mailto:jakka@y...>
> phone 0412 158 763
>
> Website: www.aussiemotorists.com
<http://www.aussiemotorists.com/>;
>
>
>
> REFERENCE MATERIAL:
> Influence of time of the day for different age categories of
drivers
> http://www.atsb.gov.au/road/stats/pd..._2003Dec04.pdf.
> See Table 6 on page 14
> Fatalities by time of day and day of the week of crash for major
road
> user categories, Australia, 2000 to 2002, Time of day

back2thefutura · 07-18-2004, 20:35

For Australia, the concept of driver curfews is impractical.

Amen to that. The sooner everyone stops thinking that whatever works overseas will work here, the better.

madwob · 07-18-2004, 20:41

limit P platers time where they are allowed to drive, and all you'll do is limit the amount of experience they can get.

curfew wouldnt work IMO

and yes, i am a P plater

big_pete · 07-18-2004, 23:07

stupidest thing EVER.

AUsome · 07-19-2004, 00:01

meh, i am a p plater too, if they bring this in, does that mean i will abide by it?

au-steve · 07-19-2004, 00:04

how do they expect me to get to and from work? i would just be driving illigally, thus creating another problem. How would they possibly police such a law? pull over every car and check weather they have a full licence or not? Stupid idea IMO ....

subsbligh35 · 07-19-2004, 01:35

I used to be a P-Plater and I had to work late at nights. There are a lot more practical implications of a curfew which are unworkable and a breach of civil liberties, IMO.

I *possibly* agree with power/weight restrictions and limiting passengers in the vehicle with the P-Plater. From a literal and somewhat macarbe view, having less passengers in the car limits the amount of young people who will die if a the driver crashes....minimises tradgedy etc.

The power to weight restrictions are debatable but once again the similiar argument of "if a p-plater isn't experienced in all environments, then they are more likely to crash."

The problem rest entirely on the fact that on average young drivers are inexperienced and less skilled. Couple that with an Australian culture which encourages one-up manship and stupidity among young, seemingly invincible, males and you have a difficult problem.

davway · 07-19-2004, 01:41

as long as some dick is behind the wheel there will always be people dying. its the mentallity of the driver that kills. you think your a hero and drive like your on a race track then what the hell do you expect to happen? if you feel the need to do 160 kmh on any road then you WILL get what is coming to you, even if that means your rapped around a pole or tree dead with your limbs scattered and ripped from your body. it all comes back to personal responsibility, those that have none, well dont worry coz they wont be living long.

back2thefutura · 07-19-2004, 05:25

Davway, even thougn your avatar suggest otherwise, you have a bloody good grasp of this whole issue. I just wish more people would think like you and i do - in the end, you cant blame the car, the road, the time of day, or the other people in the car - always comes down to who's behind the wheel.

Devil CV8 · 07-19-2004, 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by au-steve

how do they expect me to get to and from work? ....

Where the curfew already exists overseas there are exemptions for work related travel so there are no problems with work related travel.

Quote:

i would just be driving illigally, thus creating another problem.

nope

Quote:

How would they possibly police such a law? pull over every car and check weather they have a full licence or not? Stupid idea IMO ....

same way they police every other law.

They also have exemptions os for medical related travel, carriage of family members (for the passenger limit for P platers)

These types of restrictions have worked elsewhere and would work here. P platers already have some restrictions on what they can do in australian states and I don't see anyone complaining about them, although every time a new rule is talked about, people come out of the woodwork and say it won't work...