DOHC or Pushrods - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
Ford Forum Ford Forum

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
ยป Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > Fordforums Community > The Pub
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Auto Loans Garage Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

The Pub For General Discussion

FordForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
View Poll Results: Pushrod or DOHC
DOHC 76 67.86%
Pushrod 16 14.29%
They are both as good as each other 20 17.86%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-24-2004, 01:11   #1 (permalink)
_____________________
 
Ambrose_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,942
DOHC or Pushrods

What do you think are the better engine in general, taking future development and cost into consideration.

It'll be good to hear your thought and opinions
Ambrose_1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-24-2004, 01:23   #2 (permalink)
RIP Sox.....
 
Soxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sydney
Age: 45
Posts: 2,580
Re: DOHC or Pushrods

Mmmm, why does this question even need to be asked??

Rick.
__________________
4L I6, naturally aspirated producing 173.5rwkw.
14.410 @ 96.49mph with street radials.
What's that?..... Did I hear you say TQE power?
Soxx is offline  
Old 06-24-2004, 01:24   #3 (permalink)
BA'o'Matic 100% working.
 
Dellboy999's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Victoria
Age: 43
Posts: 3,838
Re: DOHC or Pushrods

DOHC, no push rod bending, allowing higher compression and more performance.
__________________
I did put something here, but it vanshied, I think

"So long and thanks for all the fish!"

Last edited by Dellboy999; 06-24-2004 at 01:35.
Dellboy999 is offline  
Old 06-24-2004, 01:32   #4 (permalink)
Circuit board dressups!
 
Back In Black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,124
Re: DOHC or Pushrods

DOHC all the way
__________________
Member 2 of 3 of the "God I hate cheers and regards autosignatures" group
"We'll get 'em next year, Mark" - Jeff Grech at the creek, 2003.
Back In Black is offline  
Old 06-24-2004, 01:58   #5 (permalink)
rwd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 238
Re: DOHC or Pushrods

What kind of engine and car are you talking about?
V8 from "the big three", I'll take pushrod
anything else I'll get DOHC, and I've already told you why Ambrose_1
So I will have to stay neutral unless you state the type of engine you are talking about.
rwd is offline  
Old 06-24-2004, 02:00   #6 (permalink)
SBR Supporter
 
Steffo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,926
Re: DOHC or Pushrods

DOHC isn't all its cracked up to be. Its larger, physically, and weighs more. Lets just compare a 260kW 500Nm 5.4 litre DOHC 32v BA XR8 to a 220kW 435Nm 5.0 litre OHV 16v pushrod AUIII XR8. Both average 14.4s over the 1/4 mile, yet the BA has a 40kW and 65Nm advantage. Why? Well, that 5.4 in the BA is a much larger engine then the 5.0 in the AUIII, and not simply capacity wise. A 330ci DOHC V8 from a current Falcon is dimensionally larger then a 351ci Cleveland V8 from say, an XY. It is also quite heavy. To match its lighter pushrod sibling, it needs to be making alot more power and torque.

Pushrod engines tend to be structurally stronger then Overhead Cam engines are. Drag Race engines have proven this. Pretty much all Top Fuel cars are pushrod, there is only one exception I know of, Sanity I believe, and they are very slow (5.2s @ 290ish mph is slow for a T/F). The cam drive system is suspect to breaking quite early in the run of such a powerful engine, which compromises the already shaky reliability of Top Fuel and Funny Car engines. Hence why the "old tech" pushrod blokes are running well into the 4s, and the ONLY (note the emphasis on only) OHC example is stuck in the low 5s.

People can blab on about efficiency all they like, but fact of the matter is, Ford's most successful engine ever, the Windsor, was pushrod. And it is momenterily proving to still be a far superior proposition to the current 5.4litre mill in the Falcon, and the less-insanley-undersquare 4.6 in the Mustang. GM seems to be doing well with pushrod V8's, what with the GenIII's success and the upcoming GenIV. They do make a DOHC motor, its called the Northstar 4.6 currently only used by Cadillac. If it were beneficial, it would quite easily find its way into GM's beloved Corvette, but they have decided that the GenIII LS1/LS6 and the GenIV LS2 are superior and so continute to use those.

Not to mention the fact that Holden/HSV seem to be doing better then Ford with their "low-tech" pushrod solutions, what with 285kW 510Nm in the Clubsport now superior to its Ford competition, the XR8's 260kW 500Nm. The 260kW 475Nm Clubby was faster then a BA XR8, the 285kW job brushes it away like a housefly. As does the 300kW 510Nm GTS to the 290kW 520Nm GT. Frankly, myself, I'd have liked to have seen Ford Australia push on with the Windsor V8 at 5.6litres instead of wasting time with the 5.4, or at least adopting the Cobra's Supercharged 4.6.

After saying what I've said, I really don't know why I voted "both are as good as each other," but I guess it is the most correct thing. Both have their strengths and their weaknesses. And before anyone starts yapping about DOHC being newer, DOHC was invented in 1917 in France (forgot by who) and the first DOHC V8 was done in 1928 by Ford. Pushrod was done by the Chevy brothers in 1913. Ford decided in 1928 that Pushrod was more cost effective and space efficient then overhead cams, so they dumped the concept from major production until 1996, with the exception of the SOHC 427 "Cammer" V8 of the 1970s.

From the early results of this poll, it seems that the majority of people on this forum are blinded by jibberish about DOHC being newer and more efficient. BA's V8s aren't proving to be that efficient at all.
__________________
Steffo is offline  
Old 06-24-2004, 02:34   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 72
Re: DOHC or Pushrods

Not to be a pedantic bastid, but in what way do you say it is less efficent? Power per litre, Power per Kg, Fuel?

If we're talking power per litre, the Boss is proving to be more efficient that the LS1.
horus14 is offline  
Old 06-24-2004, 02:38   #8 (permalink)
rwd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 238
Re: DOHC or Pushrods

Quote:
Originally Posted by horus14
If we're talking power per litre, the Boss is proving to be more efficient that the LS1.
I dont have a clue, but what is so great about power per litre?
Ricers go on about the Honda S2000 all the time when it comes to that, I have always though its a bragging thing, just like DOHC.
rwd is offline  
Old 06-24-2004, 02:45   #9 (permalink)
_____________________
 
Ambrose_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,942
Re: DOHC or Pushrods

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd
What kind of engine and car are you talking about?
V8 from "the big three", I'll take pushrod
anything else I'll get DOHC, and I've already told you why Ambrose_1
So I will have to stay neutral unless you state the type of engine you are talking about.
It says in general, meaning over the whole range of different engines what would you take, it doesnt really matter because we had this discussion and thats why I started this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soxx
Mmmm, why does this question even need to be asked??

Rick.
Why not?
Ambrose_1 is offline  
Old 06-24-2004, 02:53   #10 (permalink)
RIP Sox.....
 
Soxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sydney
Age: 45
Posts: 2,580
Re: DOHC or Pushrods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffo
DOHC isn't all its cracked up to be. Its larger, physically, and weighs more. Lets just compare a 260kW 500Nm 5.4 litre DOHC 32v BA XR8 to a 220kW 435Nm 5.0 litre OHV 16v pushrod AUIII XR8. Both average 14.4s over the 1/4 mile, yet the BA has a 40kW and 65Nm advantage. Why?
Because the BA is heavier car than the AU, nothing more.
Quote:
Well, that 5.4 in the BA is a much larger engine then the 5.0 in the AUIII, and not simply capacity wise. A 330ci DOHC V8 from a current Falcon is dimensionally larger then a 351ci Cleveland V8 from say, an XY. It is also quite heavy. To match its lighter pushrod sibling, it needs to be making alot more power and torque.
Nonsense. Yes a 5.4 DOHC is heavier than the 5L Windsor, but it ain't heavier then a 351 Cleveland.
Quote:
Pushrod engines tend to be structurally stronger then Overhead Cam engines are.
More nonsense.
Quote:
Drag Race engines have proven this. Pretty much all Top Fuel cars are pushrod, there is only one exception I know of, Sanity I believe, and they are very slow (5.2s @ 290ish mph is slow for a T/F). The cam drive system is suspect to breaking quite early in the run of such a powerful engine, which compromises the already shaky reliability of Top Fuel and Funny Car engines. Hence why the "old tech" pushrod blokes are running well into the 4s, and the ONLY (note the emphasis on only) OHC example is stuck in the low 5s.
These are blown engines running so much boost and nitro it ain't funny. No matter how the valves were opened it wouldn't matter.
BTW, it's 'Sainty'.
Quote:
People can blab on about efficiency all they like, but fact of the matter is, Ford's most successful engine ever, the Windsor, was pushrod.
Jeez, and so it should be, it's been around for more than 40 years!
Quote:
And it is momenterily proving to still be a far superior proposition to the current 5.4litre mill in the Falcon, and the less-insanley-undersquare 4.6 in the Mustang.
What a load of bollocks, far superior to whom, may I ask?
Quote:
GM seems to be doing well with pushrod V8's, what with the GenIII's success and the upcoming GenIV.
Success?? You call that rough running, oil using bucket of shit a success??
The only thing that has saved the Gen 3 is the fact that Ford offered no competition to it until the BA.
The only reason it outguns the BA 5.4 is because the cars are lighter and better geared. That ain't rocket science.
Quote:
They do make a DOHC motor, its called the Northstar 4.6 currently only used by Cadillac. If it were beneficial, it would quite easily find its way into GM's beloved Corvette, but they have decided that the GenIII LS1/LS6 and the GenIV LS2 are superior and so continute to use those.
Nonsense, it's all about money.
Quote:
Not to mention the fact that Holden/HSV seem to be doing better then Ford with their "low-tech" pushrod solutions, what with 285kW 510Nm in the Clubsport now superior to its Ford competition, the XR8's 260kW 500Nm. The 260kW 475Nm Clubby was faster then a BA XR8, the 285kW job brushes it away like a housefly. As does the 300kW 510Nm GTS to the 290kW 520Nm GT. Frankly, myself, I'd have liked to have seen Ford Australia push on with the Windsor V8 at 5.6litres instead of wasting time with the 5.4, or at least adopting the Cobra's Supercharged 4.6.
Well let's just be thankful you're not in charge of making those decisions within Ford OZ.
See above about why the GM product has been hosing the blue oval. Hint, weight and gearing. Compare engines alone and it's a no brainer, Ford in the first generation are generating the numbers to look like a very promising future.
Quote:
After saying what I've said, I really don't know why I voted "both are as good as each other," but I guess it is the most correct thing. Both have their strengths and their weaknesses. And before anyone starts yapping about DOHC being newer, DOHC was invented in 1917 in France (forgot by who) and the first DOHC V8 was done in 1928 by Ford. Pushrod was done by the Chevy brothers in 1913. Ford decided in 1928 that Pushrod was more cost effective and space efficient then overhead cams, so they dumped the concept from major production until 1996, with the exception of the SOHC 427 "Cammer" V8 of the 1970s.
From the early results of this poll, it seems that the majority of people on this forum are blinded by jibberish about DOHC being newer and more efficient. BA's V8s aren't proving to be that efficient at all.
Well, many other manufactures around the world must be blind also.
BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Ducati, etc,etc.
You are so wrong it's not funny.
OHC and DOHC have so many advantages over pushrod engines it's just plain silly to even compar the two, hence my first post on the subject.

You can't compare what was developed over 1/2 a century ago to what is being done today with modern metals and manufacturing techniques.

Get back to me with some real 'engine' numbers and not the whole 'vehicles' numbers and we'll go for round two.

Rick.
__________________
4L I6, naturally aspirated producing 173.5rwkw.
14.410 @ 96.49mph with street radials.
What's that?..... Did I hear you say TQE power?
Soxx is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > Fordforums Community > The Pub



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ford's first DOHC Big Block.. what year?? StoveBolt FE (330-428) Tech 1 11-23-2003 00:11
Ford's first DOHC Big Block .. what year ?? StoveBolt Ford Racing Across the Globe 2 11-22-2003 20:47
Help! please! 3.0 dohc NorCal Inline 6 Tech 2 11-11-2003 19:04
E series falcon 6 with DOHC? metal boy General Tech 7 05-25-2003 22:02
Rumor or fact? DOHC Turbo 6 Spinksy The Pub 22 06-24-2001 05:06

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:07.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.