E-Gas Option? - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars

Barra_4_Eva · 11-16-2002, 00:03

i was at a dealer with my Dad, NuFord to be paticular, and looking out for the XR6T (i think there are two in the showroom, not sure) when my Dad got "confronted" by a dealer. My Dad, being a man who liked room for transporting stuff, ie the wagon, was keen to know about E-Gas. Now he explained the Dedicated Gas process, but im not sure why we cant use the standard Barra 182 Engine and have it run Dual Fuel?

Im sure there is a reason, just id like to know.

harasn · 11-16-2002, 15:53

i'm in the process of finding out frominside ford and will let you know when i find out. there has been previous threads on this so do a search.... it will void your warranty if you fit dual fuel!!!

Organza · 11-17-2002, 04:09

The question raised is "Why no dual fuel?"

The question you should be asking is "Why did Ford see fit to only engineer a solely LPG engine solution?"

Couple of reasons in no particular order;

LPG is a very different fuel to petrol. I can hear you all say "no kidding". LPG has much less kJ energy in it than petrol (for the same amount of fuel). Petrol has a RON (octane rating) of 91-93 and 96 if you have premium. LPG has an octane rating of about 105. With a dual fuel solution, Ford would need an ECM that managed the two very different fuels but still give reliability, power, ease of starting and anything else an owner would expect. As such the performance of the engine is compromised in trying to achieve a balance between LPG and petrol performance.

The LPG only solution means that Ford can design the ECM to optimise the engine's performance with LPG fuel without the need for mapping to satisfactorily burn petrol as well. Also because the engine uses only LPG, the compression ratio can be lifted substantially to 10.7:1 up from the 9.65:1 ratio in AU3 - this makes the best use of the fuels characteristics.

The proof is in the pudding ... in AU3 the LPG engine put out 142kW, the BA E-Gas engine something like 156kW. In other words the E-Gas BA engine is putting out just 1kW less than the petrol only AU3 engine!!!

The only drawback I can think of with LPG only is the possibility of running out of fuel - you can't drop in an emergency 5 litres to get you to a servo, LPG delivery into the tank is under pressure obviously and there is no such thing as a "jerrycan" for LPG.

But how often do you run out of fuel now? If you do, is it because the car used more fuel than you thought it would on a given journey or is it because you made a mistake and didn't fill up when you should have? I'd suggest 9.5 times out 10 it would be the latter .... so with normal planning and care it should never be an issue.

And LPG stations are everywhere these days even in the rural areas .... so LPG only is the ONLY way to go.

Once again .... another right choice by Ford with BA.

Barra_4_Eva · 11-17-2002, 04:44

well that answers my question, because i didnt understand the difference between the two, in relation to all the engine factors.

thats the only concern i would have, but as you say, poor car management is the only way you could ever run out of fuel in a LPG only car.

Hell, my mums Petrol Pump doesnt work, so she runs LPG only on her XF, and it runs good.

Thanks for clearing that up...

maco65 · 11-17-2002, 04:47

All the points you make are valid and I agree with you whole heartedly with you Organza, but then there are the people who need both fuels for the "range" factor. E.g Taxi's. This brings me to ask another question, which is can you put a dual fuel setup on a petrol BA by an after market fitter?

I think this would interest many fleet operators who do large amounts of kilometers a day or year.

AUForte · 11-17-2002, 04:55

Why not just fit a second gas tank?

maco65 · 11-17-2002, 04:59

There is only soo much room under the car. Besides there is two tank on the all gas cars. Total of about 110L which only 80% of that can be used due to saftey reasons. But still sumtimes i've had drivers say that's it's not enough during peak times!

AUForte · 11-17-2002, 05:05

true but the two gas tanks are in the place of the petrol, dual fuel vehicles have gas tanks in the boot, 3 tanks worth of gas?

maco65 · 11-17-2002, 05:09

Smart idea, and I like it. But I bet my left nut that there would be some one out there that would complain about the loss of boot space, and that may have been the only reason they didn't go duel fuel bla bla bla...

But that is a good idea.

Organza · 11-17-2002, 05:14

I have no idea whether its possible to do a dual fuel conversion to a BA petrol 6 cylinder .... but assuming its possible, the problems you have include

1. you are running on an ECM mapped for petrol only and as per previous email, this is not going to do much for LPG use. You'd imagine reliability issues, economy and power issues. And of course the engine is running on a lower compression ratio. Who knows if its compatible with things like drive by wire throttle control?

2. The warranty issue - beyond whether its even possible, like any modification to the car you make, Ford (as would other manufacturers) would reserve the right to not provide warranty service where the problem you want fixed is caused/attributed to the modification - and with something as extensive and fundamental as an LPG conversion you are toying with the entire driveline, the electronics ..... big problems to fix for yourself if you have any.

3. It has been my almost 100% experience that aftermarket LPG converters are diabolical when it comes to providing warranty for THEIR conversion. What happens is the customer becomes the meat in the sandwich. The manufacturer withdraws warranty because they had nothing to do with the conversion .... the customer goes back to the LPG installer and they say its not their problem, its the manufacturers fault .... thereby starting a long and tedious process to get it fixed (almost always eventually by the LPG installer).

Regarding the range issue ....
The Falcon Sedan's useable E-Gas LPG fuel tank capacity is 90 odd litres, the Wagons 110 litres from memory .... even at a heavy fuel rate of 15 litres per 100k's that's 600 kilometres range for the Sedan and 750 or so for the Wagon ..... more than enough and probably as good as the petrol only units.