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Old 06-14-2001, 03:45   #1 (permalink)
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Forte vs Exec - Real World

Well today was the big test. We had a group of us with one lot renting a VX from Avis, one a Forte from Hertz.

Three of the guys were Americans, and we had one lady. I suggested we rotate drivers a bit and see what we liked. The results:

5 votes Commo
1 vote Falc (me, although it was very, very close)

Reasons:
* The commo had better 'response'. We put this down to the fact the Commo has a looser feeling drivetrain where the slip of the convertor (or T/C ratio) seems to provide a response advantage. The result is seemingly less throttle angle for the same result. The Ford drivetrain feels comparatively direct and the engine feels like it takes time to get going.
* The falc had a better interior feel and finish (like that was a surprise).
* The commodore rode better and felt more 'secure'. When I asked about the secure thing there was problems quantifying the feeling in words
* The commo had a great idea - the blackout between the sunvisors to stop sun coming through
* The remote of the commo was easier to use
* The brakes felt better on commo
* The commo used less than 12l/100, the ford close to 15!

When I asked those that preferred the Holden what the one main reason was, it was the drivetrain/power/response thing. The surprise was the female tester who is a long way off being a revhead - she said no doubts commo.

The americans were very positive about the commo!

Anyone else have comments on the drivetrain response? (I am very vague on autos and TCs (I very much prefer third pedals...)
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Old 06-14-2001, 04:32   #2 (permalink)
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I'm afraid this isn't related to drivetrain response but I must admit, I would prefer a VX Exec to an AU(2) Forte. The Forte sits too high and I can't say the styling really appeals.

But when it gets to other models (Fairmont vs Berlina, EF vs VR, XR8 vs SS) then I am certianly a Ford buff.

I just seem to think that if your a Holden fan then an Exec is perfectly adequate but if you support Ford then to have a cool car you have to goto XR's and luxury spec (eg Fairmont, GHIA).

I realise none of these arguments are very concrete, but Ford's base models dont seems to appeal to car enthusiasts like Holden do with the Exec.

I dont think it has too much to do with power output either. (but it would certainly help if they got the XR spec V8's, like Holden)

Please, I am not, by any means, knocking people here who own base models, I even want one myself soonish. I eagerly await your responses...
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Old 06-14-2001, 04:42   #3 (permalink)
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Aussie Pete, We have 2 Forte's at work a series one and series two. I'm not in a position to compare against the current Commondore however I can state that the response and pickup of the Forte is what I would call Doughy!!!. Compared to past models EB,ED,EF,EL it feels flat. As a cruising highway car it is great, put on the cruise and it just keeps on going smooth and comfortable.. However around town it seems lacking in take off and excelleration under load..

However it has far more options standard than a Commondore...
And it has a Ford badge....

Oh well there's another 2c's worth...

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Old 06-14-2001, 04:50   #4 (permalink)
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That 'doughy' feel is what I was talking about. It feels like the throttle isn't connected to the engine (like on a ship: Capt gives command, relayed to engine room, engineer ops throttle). The effect of the Commo is to give the illusion there is far more lugging power (torque) than Falc.

I'm sure someone in Ford would know how to explain all this, but it is the lay person's impression that seems to be important isn't it? Having rented Satesman V6, the car feels quite lively given weight to power. I was surprised to say the least.
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Old 06-14-2001, 05:03   #5 (permalink)
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Have to say the cruddydore feels more alive then the Falcon off the line. Even the slugged 3.0 TE/TF Magna felt quicker off the mark then the Falcon and those were programed to take off in second if gentle (?) use of the throttle was used. Can't comment on the Holden for long distance work as I never drove one for more then 100m. Any way driven a Mercedes 300GD auto? Takes 2 seconds to take off at full throttle!
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Old 06-14-2001, 05:39   #6 (permalink)
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Having driven an AU1 Forte and VX Acclaim I concur with what the others are saying about the feel off the line. However in terms of handling the Falcon is streets above the Crummydore IMHO, VX felt really vauge and 'doughy' in steering response...

My folks should get their AU2 SR soon (decided on venom red and tickford 16' alloys...) will post my opinions on it when it arrives..
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Old 06-14-2001, 06:03   #7 (permalink)
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Mate just as i was goin to bed, this thread came across, ok i am a ford nut, but firtly the handling i find the falcon is definitly taughter than the commodore.As well as that i don't like the taily attitude of the commodore (maybe toooo much falcon driving).

Power, ok i agree with you guys about that instant throttle feel in the coomodore, but read my lips thats "around town" and not high speed cruising. What pete says is right, it is an illusion with a looser torque converter and the v6 sound, apparently they have stainless steal headers stock on them (not 100% sure though) so that a amplifies the sound when you hit the loud pedal. I admit theres a good spread of torgue down low from the buick 6, but i feel theres not much up top.

But i have borrowed a VT for 3 months and when i drive up the mountains on the GWH, the falcon kicks it side ways. For the same speed up a steep hill doin 120-130km/h i find i have to rev the commodore harder. Ford feels smoother. I have to note this isn't even comparing it to my manual baby. Oh yeah teh falcon has a muuuch better cross wind stability as well than commo.
I'm not baggin the commo, but where i live i drive on the above mentioned condition thats why i feel falcons are superior.

I personally reckon the AU's are as quick as EF-EL's but the AU's are a whole lot quieter thats what explains the feeling of less power.
If you ask me what keys to take a Forte or Exec, ford country i say...
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Old 06-14-2001, 14:44   #8 (permalink)
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I don't agree about the rear end stability of the Falc. All those that drove the cars yesterday mentioned the Falc felt nervous compared to Commo.

BTW; explain the fuel consumption - I couldn't believe it. And we filled the cars after pickup so we knew they were full (a habit I've acquired when getting cars from rental companies. They aren't always full)
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Old 06-14-2001, 14:51   #9 (permalink)
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The AU I drove felt fine from the rear, just the front felt like it wanted to be else where. Although I was told it had a hit somwhere! The fuel usage could be the drivers in the Falcon laying into in effort to overcome the percived lack of go compared to the Commodore. Or it could be one of those friday cars!
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Old 06-14-2001, 14:57   #10 (permalink)
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The Forte I got the other week in melbourne used over 14 with almost all driving on the CityLink and Geelong freeways. So, it seems to be constant. The other half couldn't believe it!

I wonder if TC tweaking would make the Falc feel more lively? After all there is a TC lockup so fuel consumption shouldn't be hurt on freeways etc and you'd have less throttle usage around town (of course, who am I to second guess the experts at Ford - and I mean that seriously since they ARE the experts).
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