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Old 07-03-2004, 03:19   #1 (permalink)
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Future Falcon auto

I was reading the Herald Sun yesterday and was scanning through the business section when I noticed an article about a big money deal that Ion Automotive (formerly BTR) have signed to supply four speed autos to a Chinese car company. I don't know whether these autos are the same as the ones used in the BA but the thing that interested me was the statement that said the Chinese were also interested in the six speed auto that is in development. Could this be the future auto for six cylinder Falcons. I would assume the FPV vehicles would get the ZF auto for its strength but it would be too costly to put in the base model vehicles so this would make good sense to put this auto in the XT, Futura etc as it would be much cheaper than a fully imported ZF. Copperhead may be the model that gets this auto as the four speed auto will soldier on for at least 1 or 2 more years.
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Old 07-03-2004, 03:24   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Future Falcon auto

It's funny sometimes how articles in different sections of a paper can give you more clues to future car model plans while the manufacturers themselves deny anything. Remember when the Victorian government announced that Ford was making future capital expenditure including a "new model" (the Territory) and yet Ford themselves would not make comment on "future model plans"

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Old 07-03-2004, 03:40   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Future Falcon auto

It would definately make sense. The four speed will need to be replaced soon and the ZF is too expensive. I also remember Ford cracking the shits last year when Holden wanted in on the development of a new auto by Ion, didn't say what it was but Ford was pissed that they were involved in the development and Holden came along later and said this looks ok, maybe we could use this for the Commodore. Don't know how it all panned out though.
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Old 07-03-2004, 08:26   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Future Falcon auto

Kinda funny how Ford got pissed with Holden but, in the US they both collaborated on a front wheel drive 5 speed box together through a partnershiop deal.

ION also bought out Castalloy here in Adelaide so ION now have got their fingers in many automotive pies... especially since it's Casties that are making engine parts for Holdenmeback.
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Old 07-03-2004, 08:43   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Future Falcon auto

I think the six speed isn't such as great idea. In the reviews i've read of the six speed commodores suggest there is not real need for an extra gear. You may be right bossxr8, Fords auto box shouldn't be too far away.
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Old 07-03-2004, 08:55   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Future Falcon auto

its all common sense really. the most up market cars already have 5 and 6 speed autos and its only a matter of time before we get them.
think about this. in 1969 mercedes had fuel injection, IRS and a heap of other stuff that we have only just seen in the last few years. where do you think air bags came from and ABS, elec windows, intermitant windscreen wipers, over head cams and everything else we have originated from? surely no one believes that we invented them?
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Old 07-03-2004, 18:40   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Future Falcon auto

Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Boundries
I think the six speed isn't such as great idea. In the reviews i've read of the six speed commodores suggest there is not real need for an extra gear. You may be right bossxr8, Fords auto box shouldn't be too far away.
Thats because Holden have decided to make it stupidly overgeared. Theoretically it is geared to pull 366kmh in 6th gear. That is just ridiculous. 6th gear is totally useless in the Commodore but Ford is not stupid enough to overgear a car like that although we are talking about autos not manuals. The six speed auto will make a massive difference as it will bring all the ratios tighter together and will make first gear lower which will improve acceleration while allowing less revs at cruising speeds for better highway economy.
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Old 07-03-2004, 20:34   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Future Falcon auto

I have been against the Holden six speed but now I don't think it is a bad thing. 100km/h at 1500rpm will do wonders for highway cruising fuel consumption. With the BOSS' low range torque even leaving it in sixth while cruising then suddenly accelerate would make passing cars a breeze.
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Old 07-03-2004, 22:46   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Future Falcon auto

Quote:
Originally Posted by davway
1969 Mercedes had fuel injection, IRS and a heap of other stuff that we have only just seen in the last few years.
Fuel injection was developed by the Germans in the 2nd WW if i'm not mistaken, for use in their fighter planes, which allowed them to reach very high altitudes, and do barrel rolls, loop the loops and all kind of crazy stuff.

But back to the gearbox's, I tend to agree, i cant see the 6sp being a bad thing at all, as long as they give us nice tight ratios, and something to keep the rev's at about 2000rpm for highway, with a quick kick down for overtaking back to 5th. But i suppose that would depend on where the engine makes its max torque.


Great find, I know I donít read the Business section of the paper....

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Old 07-04-2004, 01:10   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Future Falcon auto

Germans did have mechanical fuel injected engines in WWII, this fuel injection ment the engine could be upside down, performing high G or neg G manouvour, etc and the fuel supply would not be uninterupted thus maintaining power to complete the action.

Example of this was the BF 109 fighter with the Jumo 210G varient engine with fuel injection and two stage supercharger. The later versions of the BF 109K-4 had the Daimler-Benz DB 605, which had 1550Hp standard, and over 2000Hp of emergency power.

The Allies did not, atleast initally or ever widely have this technology. Spitfires would sputter, lean out and have all sorts of problems.

Spain didn't retire its fleet of 109's until 1967..

6 speeds make perfect sense. A ratio below the current 4 speeds 1st (which usually doesn't change up under WOT until ~80kmph), to assist on take off, a ratio above to assist with fuel economy/NVH.. Peice of cake. Fuel economy increases, performance times improve, NVH is lower, everyone is happy.

Commodores 6 speed implementation is flawed. Long diff gears, combined with economy 6th gear for US corrvettes, combined with the LS1 rather peaky delivery, combined with the Commodores weight and aerodynamics.. Hence flawed. It doesn't have to be that way.. nice tight sensible ratios will do wonders for falcon.
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