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Old 08-13-2001, 21:41   #1 (permalink)
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Have Ford left them selves no where to go?

What do you guys think?

Have Ford left them selves no where to go with the modular V8's.

Firstly I would like to compare a few things between modular V windsor

Displacement Bore Stroke Bore Wall
spacing thickness
mm mm mm

5.0l 101.6 76.2 111.252 9.65
5.8l 101.6 88.9 111.252 9.65
460 ci 110.74 97.79 124.46 13.72

4.6l 90.22 90.0 100.0 9.78
5.4l 90.22 105.8 100.0 9.78

As you can see the stroke for the 5.4l modular is longer than the 460 big block with a bore smaller than a 5.0l (302).

What I am concerned with is that ford surely can not expect to lengthen the stroke again of the 5.4 to create more cubes nor can it afford to increase the size of the bore as the wall thick shown above is what is left between cylinders. If they wanted to produce a 5.8litre out of the 5.4 motor they would need to increase the bore to 93.435mm. This would leave only 6.565mm between cylinders.

From what I have read on this forum and in the magazines it is likely the the general is going to up the capacity to 6.0l of the LS1 in the future. Where does this leave the ford engine.

I wonder if the new 5.0l modular being developed for the mustang in the states is actually based on the dimensions of the old windsor to allow for future capacity increases.

From what I see above I am concerned that the 5.4 is already at the end of the road in the capacity stakes.

Saying that I will be quite happy to kick Holdens a$$ with a smaller capacity motor which is naturally aspriated.

What do you guys think? Do you think they will bring out a big block version of the modular for capacitys of 6.0L and beyond.

David
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Old 08-13-2001, 21:57   #2 (permalink)
 
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Yeah I know what you are saying. They say the trend will be back towards smaller cars is on the way. Makes you wonder what future big displacement motors will have.

If the general brings the 6 litre to the HSV cars you would think that Ford would need the 5.8.

Doesn't the 5.4 go through a redesign when it switches to all alloy?
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Old 08-13-2001, 22:04   #3 (permalink)
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HSE2

It might go through a bit of a redesign.

I was looking at the Ford motor sport blocks you can buy. The alloy ones in particular and I have just found that they offer a 302 and a 351 alloy block with simese bores which have an bore wal thickness between cylinders of just 5.3mm.

I gues these things aren't built to last a long time just a powerful short time.

So I gues they could have simese bores on the 5.4 and increase the bores to reach 5.8l but not sure how this will last.
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Old 08-13-2001, 22:11   #4 (permalink)
 
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Just out of interest, what wall thickness does the LS1 have?
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Old 08-13-2001, 22:17   #5 (permalink)
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Don't know off the top of my head.

I will do some searching.

Anyone else have an idea.

David
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Old 08-13-2001, 22:24   #6 (permalink)
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just a point to the first thread, the stroke on the 5.4 modular is longer than the 460. Jaguar have ben using this design for years, and the power output is staggering to say the least. If Ford are doing this now, for the modular, then whats to stop them producing a formula engine the same as the F1's, and stuffing that in the later 2004 AV. That would get me excited very quickly.

Something with the power of an F1 would kick arse..
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Old 08-13-2001, 22:26   #7 (permalink)
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Yeah but F1 engines don't last too long.... their lifespan is like 1 race which is approximately 300km :eek: :eek:
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Old 08-13-2001, 22:28   #8 (permalink)
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The olny problem with sticking in an engine like an F1 in an AV Ford would have lots of warrenty claims as F1 engines last about 1000kms before $hiting themselves.

So far I have found that the firing order of an LS1 is 18726543 and the Bores are 100mm and the stroke is 92mm.

Still looking for the wall thickness.
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Old 08-13-2001, 22:30   #9 (permalink)
 
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What would be the safe wall thinkness of these all alloy blocks be ?
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Old 08-13-2001, 22:34   #10 (permalink)
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I dont mean an F1 engine as such, but along the same lines. Long stroke, small bore, compact like an F1 but in a V8 configuration, along the same power output, well not quite the same but along the same lines, great torque lowdown, and then bang your gone.
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