Hybrids are stupid!! - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars

IPhido · 08-16-2002, 00:30

http://www.drive.com.au/news/article...XEVA8ZW4D.html

Peugeot 406 (1410kg)
Melbourne to Rockhampton � 2348km
Av speed � 65kmh
Fuel consumption � 2.88L/100km

Honda Insight (827kg) (2 seater)
Brisbane to Melbourne � 1710km
Av speed � 56kmh
Fuel consumption � 2.2L/100km

Given the 406 is a larger car and carried more people and it is sold at a profitable price which is cheaper than the Honda, its interesting? Certainly it does not seem benifical to spend massive dollars in hybrid technology. When you can effectively licence direct injection technology for less.

Diesel in Falcons if government forces fuel economy targets?

Does anyone know of any successful implimentations or experiments on direct injection LPG?

marktx5 · 08-16-2002, 00:50

good point IPhido - diesel cars are the mainstream vehicle across europe, with excellent power / fuel economy ratings - why we havent adopted this mentality (even in part) just shows our wastefulness when it comes to our natural resources.

this is where i have to excuse my ignorance - will direct injection LPG provide better economy than std LPG methods?

Troutman · 08-16-2002, 00:59

Guys, don't forget that diesel-electric hybrids are not unheard of, though there is nothing sold here. Ford has built a concept car of this type, and a HEV Escape is on the horizon.

http://www.hybridford.com/

IPhido · 08-16-2002, 04:57

The problem with electric/hybrids is that it ends up adding alot of weight to a car or making it prohibitively expensive or unprofitable. The hybrid system doesn't do that much for highway driving (as you can see above), and all that weight adds to the city cycle stop and starting, given the efficencies of battery, regenerative braking and electric motors you end up with not a great increase. I wonder if Honda had just built a 3 cylinder 1 litre car with direct injection and tossed out the hybrid stuff if it would have done even better. It certianly would have been cheaper.

Direct injection has been used on two stroke engines, Diesels, Gasoline/petrol, etc. But I haven't as yet heard anything about any developments with gaseous fuels like propane or LPG etc. I don't know if that is because of technical problems with direct injection, or that it is not economically useful to do so. I would guess atleast some of the benifits would translate to LPG applications.

I would guess using off the shelf injector systems would have limitations, but I am guessing this could be modified or creatively worked around, certainly standard LPG systems seem pretty primative to me. Much room for improvement.

http://www.lpg-systems.co.uk/tech2.html

Troutman · 08-16-2002, 05:03

I haven't yet lost faith in hybrid-electric technology. Remember that Honda show car which produced 300kW and sipped 5.5 litres per 100 km?

Having said that, a very interesting comparison will be between a hybrid-electric vehicle and a non-hybrid equivalent. When the hybrid-electric Escape is released, it will be interesting to see how it fares against a four cylinder Mazda Tribute.

Remember guys, the technology is only new. I'm sure in the early days of the automobile people argued that horses were still better...

IPhido · 08-16-2002, 05:24

Lotus elise gets 5.7L per 100km..Its here today and offers supercarish performance.

Im sceptical of flashy new technologies. Hybrids are exactly that. The seem to have political aims more so than engineering aims.

Some people still argue that steam power(external combustion) is superior to internal combustion. Some people argue that piston engines are superior to rotory engines. Some like carbs better than EFI's. There may be a few applications where hybrid technology has big pay offs.. But I don't think its a blanket solution to every problem.

snavy · 08-16-2002, 05:33

isnt the main reason why went do get a lot of desiel cars is becuase our desiel is very poor compared to europe?

IPhido · 08-16-2002, 05:46

Obviously Peugot don't think so. There are several direct injection cars avalible in australia. Yes our diesel fuel is crap (as is our unleaded and premium) but its still useable.

I think its more like they don't belive such cars will be profitable here and might effect the upmarket image for brands like BMW.

Diesel cars should in theory be a hit with aussie buyers, with loads of low down torque, excellent fuel economy, diesel popular out of the cities, good for towing etc.

Troutman · 08-16-2002, 05:52

Don't forget that in Europe, diesel fuel costs much less than petrol - so the savings multiply.

As for the Elise, if you chuck it's 1.8 litre Rover engine in a car of substansial weight you'd probably have a VC Four cylinder Commodore competitor on your hands.

chevypower · 08-16-2002, 16:32

If they ever put a diesel in a Falcon, it should be the new 6 litre V8 turbo-diesel that puts out 320 HP / 550 ft/lbs