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Old 05-22-2001, 23:22   #1 (permalink)
THE DOCTOR
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Lets Get Serious

As everyone is aware, or should be by now, we have been graced by Happy-Jack or as he is known to his friends, David Flint. This thread I will start in two parts.

Part 1 Mental Picture.
David has no idea of what sort of people we are, nor does he know our background or thoughts. I would like to start by saying, I am a State Manager, with 3 letters after my title, who knows what he wants, and I know how to get it. I am not a rev head that frequents McDonalds doing burnouts over the speed humps, nor do I frequent carparks at night comparing afterburner exhausts off F1 jet fighters hanging out the arse of my car like the rice boy's. I dont have a rear wing on either of my 2 XR8's that is so high it needs a warning light so planes dont crash into it, when approaching Mascot Airport.
My I.Q is such I can hold a conversation with anyone who is intelligent enough to listen and understand and can return the same to me.

David, without being rude to yourself, or your staff and this goes for Geoff as well, if you think this forum is full of looneys, who do what I have stated earlier, then you are sadly mistaken. If you have come here to listen and laugh to the mindless ramblings of idiots you are sadly mistaken. The people on this forum are in my opinion, some of the most intelligent people I have met, when it comes to Ford Products. Each person is different in his own way. Each can contribute in one way or another.
Enough said.

Part 2 What I want.
Like the majority of people, we are dismayed by the fact, that Ford and Tickford are behind the 8 ball instead of being in front. Without getting involved in company propaganda and all, the hype surrounding who is doing who in the closet at smoko. My question is, what can we expect from Ford in the coming months, there are rumours of strokers and 5.4's, 4.6's, and so on.
Are we going to see extra horsepower or are we going to sit behind Holden as usual. I dont expect you to break protocol and spill all, but surely something can be leaked.

having said that I would suggest to everyone on the forum that each one tell the man what we want to see in terms of power and such. Keep the power in reasonable figures as well, no ridiculous claims or 600ci blocks. the ideas must be workable and within what we would expect a budget by Ford would allow. I have chosen this method of communication because the threads are far and few between and for David to scour the lot, would take infinity.

LETS START THE BALL ROLLING. Anyone's thoughts on the stroker being a viable option. I say yes. It can be done. I'll explain in another Box.
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Old 05-22-2001, 23:28   #2 (permalink)
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I agree with everything the DOCTOR said. I also agree that the stroker has to go ahead, we need a flagship brand (FTE) and a cult car (GT) that can compete with HSV, at the moment I don't think we have that.
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Old 05-22-2001, 23:43   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Lets Get Serious

Quote:
Originally posted by THE DOCTOR
....I am not a rev head that frequents McDonalds doing burnouts over the speed humps, nor do I frequent carparks at night comparing afterburner exhausts off F1 jet fighters hanging out the arse of my car like the rice boy's. ....
Funnily enough I had a run in with one such Maccas "customer" driving a 308 torana last night, but thats a story for another thread at another time.

I agree with the Doc, I beieve the stroker would be viable, but when it comes down to it, the decision will be based on actual market research, not by what I or anyone else believes might be the case.
Lets just hope the market research agrees with our beliefs.
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Old 05-22-2001, 23:57   #4 (permalink)
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O.K Why do I think it's viable. firstly I believe that Ford has to change there way's on public perception. Stop listening to your bean counters and marketing dept, it sounds like it's full of dead wood. This forum will give you an insight of what is wanted.

If and when Ford take the approach that the 5.0 has to go, then so be it. In the meantime lets look at stock levels. I'll make a wager right now there is a **** load of old stock including unsold XR8's from dealers who did'nt make the quota. How do I know, easy inside info. Ask me...
I also bet there is a surplus of 5.0's and associated equipment sitting in racks. Instead of writing the stuff off and getting John Howard to give you a cheque, why not use the old stock. I think it's called FIFO, or was when I last used it. There must also be a **** load of 5.8 cranks in the states somewhere, looking for a 5.0 to call home. Yes this will cost money, but not as much as writing the stuff off. that involves a stocktake of all out of date inventory, that will take a few years.
add that cost up, compared to the stroker.

I had the unfortunate pleasure of doing a stocktake for cityrail some years back, I can say here and now a lot of stock including N.O.S was valued at 0.01 cent and wrote off the books. makes you sick..
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Old 05-23-2001, 00:04   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Lets Get Serious

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Originally posted by DONUT KING
Lets just hope the market research agrees with our beliefs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we the target market?

My ideal purchase from Ford/Tickford would be a Falcon GT 351 with around the 280-300kw/500nm mark, with an exhaust note to die for. 5/6 speed manual (doesn't bother me either way), stop on a 5c piece and it must corner like it's on rails. Around the $50k mark would be nice too.

I know full well that my ideal car is a pipe dream. Ford and Tickford couldn't possibly produce such a car for that price. Never the less, there are quite a few folk who are looking for such a car right now and are willing to pay the $$$ for it. HSV is the perfect example. Build quality mightn't be all that good (IMO), but they have the go and can stop just as quick.
This is what Ford/Tickford need to produce. Image leading vehicles that make people want to own them. I'm one of the few that want to own a Tickford vehicle again. I've already owned one and experienced the pleasure. Now it's time for the rest of the country to feel the same way.
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Old 05-23-2001, 00:32   #6 (permalink)
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Guys, don't forget values. Those that actually buy new cars (not those that TALK about it) have issues such as luxury tax limits, resales, packaging rates etc etc. Going overboard may actually harm the equation.

From my perspective I've had enough of owning cars like those that you describe (like my GTS-R). You can't park them anywhere and no-one in the used market can afford to buy because of insurance and other factors.

My spec is the XR8 as it stands, with updates per models changes, and a mild stroker engine that has the midrange grunt I expect from a V8. It should have 230kW but an easy 480Nm+ torque from around 3000rpm, no higher. The stroker could even be part of an XR8-R option pack for those buyers that want to go beyond what the cops get. Looking at RRP for std XR8 ($47k), this could be a major sales driver at $51k with room for one or two options before going over the Luxury Tax threshold.
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Old 05-23-2001, 01:37   #7 (permalink)
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I think that a 5.0 stroker would be a stop-gap measure for the T-Series until Ford can get supply of the mod engines. The stroker would be a hand built engine because of the tight tolerances in the stroke design so there are cost decision if it were introduced into the XR. I believe there are too many 5.0 variations so does Ford make money out of them?
The AV definitely has to have the 5.4 than the 4.6 because of torque. Talk is that there will be a 3V 5.4 (maybe VCT). Don't forget that SVT has a supercharged 5.4 (380 hp) and the Cobra R 4V (385hp- more like 400+hp). There is enough energy in the 5.4 to keep us happy. Geoff, tell your guys to make the engine bay big enough just in case we need to slip in the V10!
Another thing, can someone tell Borg Warner to make the auto more reliable. My good friend is an auto transmission specialist and told me the only thing keeping him in business is the Ford 4-speed auto. I hate when manufacturers build ancilliary items that are just good enough to be reliable. I think it is bad business when some items are a disposible.
David, what is the chance the sequential shifter of being an option in the XR range? Does it improve the 5-speeds shift quality?
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Old 05-23-2001, 01:39   #8 (permalink)
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Agreed Aussie Pete - the price range needs to be the $50k driveaway.

Face it - the most numerous sports V8's are the XR8's and the SS's. They are priced reasonably enough for someone to aim for ownership. They fall below cut-offs for packaging (ie my old company was $55k ). They aren't to pricey to insure.
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Old 05-23-2001, 02:38   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr GTHO

Another thing, can someone tell Borg Warner to make the auto more reliable. My good friend is an auto transmission specialist and told me the only thing keeping him in business is the Ford 4-speed auto. I hate when manufacturers build ancilliary items that are just good enough to be reliable. I think it is bad business when some items are a disposible.
I for one totally agree with that.

I think something has to be done about reliability on major components if theyfail early or become too expensive to repair then potential customers may hang on to their current cars for many years.

If GTHO's transmission specialist friend is saying Ford 4 speed autos are keeping him in business and seems to be well known problem people such as myself who can only have automatics may have to buy a car that dosen't have those problems.
Since my car has 165kw of power what has Ford done to automatics to withstand the extra power for the new models.

All the effort of making the car look good and upgrading performance will go out the window if the car is a lemon.
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Old 05-23-2001, 03:43   #10 (permalink)
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I'm 16 - 17 years old and i'm obviously not in the new car market, YET. For a first car i'll be looking for something like an EF Gli (mod suspension, new wheels, headers) and that's it. No rear spoiler, nothing exterior to be done. This certainly reflects my feelings if I were buying a new car. That is why I love the TS and TL50. The subtle, no rear-spoiler, nothing outrageous approach is very appealing. This is why I cant get excited about most of the HSV model range (that's not a cheap shot at the 'dark side', just my honest view). And as you may have guessed I am not a great fan of the wilder looking XR models but I see that most people feel differrently so I've got no problem with Ford catering for the wants of the majority. But that said, I do go weak at the knees when an XR8 rumbles by :CraZ: Of course I'd have one if I got the chance.

But seriously tho, i've learnt to drive in a 3.0L and 3.5L Mitsubishi (magnas\veradas... not in the leauge of certain 220kw models...) so a you can expect I'm not too concerned about more power from the linup (but we need that extra power if we want to compete it seems). Personally I'd like to see a 190kw+ 6-cylinder. I don't have too much desire to own an eight.

that's my 2c
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