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Old 11-18-2003, 11:51   #1 (permalink)
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Media reporting on WA smash

Just saw on the news this morning reports of a double fatality on WA roads... Young 18yo and his 15yo passenger were killed whilst test driving a car.

The car appeared to be an ED XR6, and it made a big mess of it. I hope is wasn't anyone from the FF community. A loss like this is tragic, especially if you know the persons involved...

http://news.com.au/common/story_page...5E1702,00.html
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Old 11-18-2003, 12:15   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Media reporting on WA smash

Yeah, I saw that .. they certainly made a mess of it. Interestingly enough there 'are questions being asked why a teenager was allowed to take such a powerful car for a drive unsupervised'. No one mentions that the current BA XT 6 cyl has more power. The XR6s are good but it was the kid's inexperience that killed him, not the car.

I hope it wasn't anyone from here either.
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Old 11-18-2003, 14:57   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Media reporting on WA smash

Yeah your exactly right XA, I keep seeing the issue rasied with some of the older V8's and P platers. But the power on the newer cars are never questioned. The power to weight on a new BA would be very simlar to a older V8 or Straight 6. It all comes down to driver experiance. I think we will all be long gone (Death of old age) before the government realises its not the cars but Driver Experiance (This is no P plater bashing either im talking about everybody). I also hope it was not anyone from here (LETS KEEP OUR FINGERS CROSSED)
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Old 11-18-2003, 15:00   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Media reporting on WA smash

First of all, I think it's a tragic loss of two people who's lives were cut tragically short at a very young age.

This is just my personal opinion here, but I think this proves that the current restrictions for people on their Probationary licenses and learners are due for revision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xacoupe
why a teenager was allowed to take such a powerful car for a drive unsupervised'. No one mentions that the current BA XT 6 cyl has more power.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that people learning to drive should only have access to cars with 1.6L or smaller 4 cyls, but I think there needs to be some sort of re-think of what is suitable for inexperienced drivers to be able to drive.

Perhaps there needs to be more taken into account then the power to weight ratio. Perhaps torque and power delivery should be taken into account as well.

Also, perhaps people should have to go for their first few driving lessons in a controlled environment. NOT on public roads, somewhere where the worst that can happen is they feel a bit stupid after realising that yanking on the steering wheel or putting their right foot flat to the floor whilst cornering isn't such a great idea after all...

I don't know, I understand it's a complex issue, and I don't think there are any easy answers. Perhaps some parents need to take more of an interest in their children learning to drive. I know when I got my learners permit my mother showed no interest at all in helping me learn to drive, I had to rely on weekly driving lessons from a driving instructor, and even after months of lessons (and my instructor saying I'd have no trouble getting my probationary license), my mother STILL wouldn't let me drive her car to gain the experience I felt I needed before driving solo...

I realise I'm in the minority here, but I'll admit to it. I didn't even get my learners permit until I was in my early 20's, because I wasn't going to get behind the wheel of a car until I felt ready for the responsibility. I personally think too many people see driving as a right, not a privilidge, and certainly not enough people take it as seriously as they should.

/end rant
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Last edited by The MaDDeSTMaN; 11-18-2003 at 15:05.
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Old 11-18-2003, 16:22   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Media reporting on WA smash

This may seem a bit harsh but it was raining that day and Old Mandurah rd isnt one of the best roads so it wasnt going to take much going into a bend to lose this car. You just think the driver would of automatically thought of this and even worse the salesman who let them take the car, Its a shame two people have died over a little common sense.
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Old 11-18-2003, 16:50   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Media reporting on WA smash

Quote:
Originally Posted by AU1SIXA
It all comes down to driver experiance. I think we will all be long gone (Death of old age) before the government realises its not the cars but Driver Experiance (This is no P plater bashing either im talking about everybody).
I'm a P plater, and I agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordy
it was raining that day and Old Mandurah rd isnt one of the best roads so it wasnt going to take much going into a bend to lose this car. You just think the driver would of automatically thought of this and even worse the salesman who let them take the car, Its a shame two people have died over a little common sense.
This is why I think that people should go for their first few driving lessons in a controlled environment. NOT on public roads. Perhaps they should also, in that controlled environment, have it demonstrated to them what happens to traction in different conditions (say a skid pan), so that the first time they come across a wet road they already know that they will have much less traction and know to be gentle with the car, rather then being inexperienced and placed in a potentially fatal situation due to not quite knowing what to expect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AU1SIXA
I keep seeing the issue rasied with some of the older V8's and P platers. But the power on the newer cars are never questioned. The power to weight on a new BA would be very simlar to a older V8 or Straight 6.
I agree, and it also doesn't take into account the way the power is delivered or the torque. What about turboed cars for example? One particular model car might make less kw/tonne then what the limit is, but when the boost comes on, the change in the way the car handles could become quite significant. For example, a car might be understeering into a corner, and the driver, not having much in the way of experience, might put their foot down hard on the accelerator, the turbo spools up, and all of a sudden the car goes from understeering into the corner to violently oversteering, and before they know it, the car's spun around 180, even 360 degrees. Ok yes, the same could happen with practically any car, the issue at hand is still lack of experience, but my point is that some cars would switch to oversteer quicker and be harder to control then others if you're an inexperienced driver, and this is one thing out of many that isn't taken into consideration with the current simplistic power/weight limitations.
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Old 11-18-2003, 17:10   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Media reporting on WA smash

Bak in NZ theres a program they run called ProDrive. Basically they go around all the highschools and organise driving days where studants will go to a safe place such as the motor raceing track where I used to live, and actually get in cars and go though courses with a trainded driving instructer. All done on grass/ tar seal courses set out with cones etc. It was free for the students and was really popular. Things they learded were candence braking how to control oversteer / understeer, emergency braking those sorts of things.
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Old 11-18-2003, 17:52   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Media reporting on WA smash

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordy
This may seem a bit harsh but it was raining that day and Old Mandurah rd isnt one of the best roads so it wasnt going to take much going into a bend to lose this car. You just think the driver would of automatically thought of this and even worse the salesman who let them take the car, Its a shame two people have died over a little common sense.
Road condition cannot be blamed for such accidents. I know by common sense that if the road is slippery and I start to lose traction, the smart thing to do is to ease off the throttle...the fun thing to do is to let the arse end hang out a little...slide...slide...slide (while compensating on steering wheel)...slide (still trying to compensate)...then WHAM!!!!!

The salesperson will be in deep shitz coz he/she shouldn't have let the two kiddos take the car out wtihout supervision! A mate of mine (2 years back) who took a highly modded 300ZX (alone) out for a test drive and returned with a pile of scrap metal and a punctured lung (plus broekn ribs).
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Old 11-18-2003, 18:03   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Media reporting on WA smash

Far out what happened there?

Hope it wasn't anyone from the FF, another crash cutting young live's short.
I agree with all that has been said and thought sales guys always went out with ya when test driving a car, or at least should have in this case.

Last edited by 94EF_Ghia; 11-18-2003 at 18:11.
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Old 11-18-2003, 18:11   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Media reporting on WA smash

Bit of rain after a dry spell will make the road more slippery than you might expect/ be used to.

I nearly done a 180 on marmion ave yesterday without really trying.

Sad to see people die. 18y/o in a xr6 while raining, going around a corner, can only guess if he was(nt) doing the right thing.

And on the meadia half of things, i dont really call a older xr6 a powerfull car. I spose its more powerfull than some but.
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