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Old 04-24-2003, 00:51   #1 (permalink)
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Strange but true VY SV8 vs GT

Here you have two cars, both Australian made sedans with V8 engines.

One engine produces far more torque through the entire rev range. Helps to get that Lardy ass off the line.

One is suppose to have 55kw more outright power than the other.

One is about 200kg heavier

I can accept that the SV8 is quicker over the quarter due mainly to its lighter frame but the bit i dont understand it why with all the extra torque and KW the GT is suppose to have it's not by the end of the 1/4 raking the SV8 in hand over fist, it comes as a shock to see that not only is this pimply faced under 15 boxing champion quicker than Fords prize fighter but the little bastard is actually getting away as they cross the line!!

I tend to think Holden may well have stopped detuning the GEN3 (if infact they ever did) and are just leaving them as they come out of the Box (250kw I believe).

The figures just dont add up to me. Even rolling starts when weight is not so much as issue the Gen3 powered cars will still win!
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Old 04-24-2003, 01:42   #2 (permalink)
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Wasn't this the same with the SS Commodore still pulling away from the XR8 Falc' even at speeds wern't an issue (eg rolling 100-150/200). Once your at such high speeds the excess 200kg "don't mean sh*t" so why is the SS/SV8 still pulling away from our beloved (while rather plump) sex machine?

Any answers from Physics majors are welcome :s3
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Old 04-24-2003, 01:44   #3 (permalink)
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as far as detuning goes I think the new Y series HSVs are pretty much on the money hp wise but is still down a little in torque 260 kw and 475 nm v 350 hp (260.99kw) 488Nm (auto) and 508Nm(manual) that is available in the C5 LS1
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Old 04-24-2003, 02:48   #4 (permalink)
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So it appears that Ford are overstating and Holden understating, compare apples with apples I say, why not make manufactures quote RWKW with a common power measure, lets face it, most of us dont drive with the flywheel touching the ground, there is usually a driveline to get through first and as we all know these consume KW at various amounts.
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Old 04-24-2003, 03:26   #5 (permalink)
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A friend of mine who is very good at maths and stuff told me that he worked out that the GEN III has actually got better torque to weight ratio than the BOSS engines, so the fact that the holden is so much lighter is a big factor, and I'd say that there going to continue to get lighter and more powerful, so if ford dont start doing things right they will never get the upper hand in the performance division.

but if your not overly worried about performance then I guess you wouldnt be complaining about the fords....

just my 2 cents
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Old 04-24-2003, 03:30   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOF
So it appears that Ford are overstating and Holden understating, compare apples with apples I say, why not make manufactures quote RWKW with a common power measure, lets face it, most of us dont drive with the flywheel touching the ground, there is usually a driveline to get through first and as we all know these consume KW at various amounts.
Didn't I read in either Wheels or Motor that they felt some of the test SS's felt "warmer" than stock. Only a dyno would show, and I think that Ford have actually understated the XR6T output a little to keep it within its "marketing" postion.

And just some questions to float on this Forum to ease my curiousity as I think aloud (or in print)-

How did the CV8 record such a high top speed in the PCOTY testing if it was totally stock and how come HSV Maloo R8 couldn't match SV8 or CV8 in any acceleration category (as Motor also stated)?

Why have some VY Gen3's out-performed HSV cars as well (in posted figures)?

Can a mag dyno a Holden press test fleet car and then grab one from a dealer nearby and repeat the test, please?

I know 0-100 & 0-400 times are only good for bragging rites as in the real world they are irrelevant, I just raise an eyebrow here or there when I see some performance figures and would think that Holden could never live down the fact if a "certain six with a strapped on snail" shamed its precious gen3 or its hero SS was spanked a little. I often see the Holden press fleet cars parked outside the Holden offices in Fishermans Bend and thought about "grabbing" one and heading to a local dyno shop. Should that be Fishy Bend instead?
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Old 04-24-2003, 08:29   #7 (permalink)
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You guys need to stop seeing conspiracies everywhere.

What if the dealer car matched the times? Would that be conclusive then??
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Old 04-24-2003, 08:40   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes
You guys need to stop seeing conspiracies everywhere.

What if the dealer car matched the times? Would that be conclusive then??
I personally think the cars they test are stock as a rock, VY SV8 faster than BA GT from 0-100 and over ther 1/4 mile, doesnt mean alot to me but does to alot of people.

The fast remains, Gen3 = great engine with quality issues, Fords problems really start when Holden (as in Australian) start making the 6.2lt Gen4, OUCH!!

Better pull out the blower Ford and hope like hell Holden don't!
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VC Valiant 245Hemi, 280zx Nissan 5 speed, 88 EA 3.9CFI,94 ED Gli X Chaser, 79 FC LTD, 351, FMX, 91 EA2 Fairmont Ghia, 1999 AU S pack, 2000 AU Forte, 1992 EB2 XR8, 2001 AU2 SR, 2002 VX2 Acclaim, 2002 VX2 Manual S pack,2003 BA XR6 manual, 2001 VX2 Berlina.
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Old 04-24-2003, 08:52   #9 (permalink)
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Yes I agree with your point..

In the last two issues of Motor and Wheels they have both tested SS Commodores.

One records a 13.9, One a 14.5

Now a very close friend of mine works at a major Holden Dealership here in Adelaide, he drives SS Commies and HSV's all day everyday and he knows there is no possible way an SS is faster than a HSV. And weight is simply not a factor at a kerb weight differenec of 27 kg's

Even Wheels or Motor(one of em) questioned whether they had received a tuned car from Holden in their most recent review of the XR8 vs the SS.

I would love to see an inderpendant assessment using two vehicles randomly selected from a Holden dealership with a neutral driver eg David Brabham

Then let's see if two stocky SS Commies can rip off 13.9's as consistently as Holden would have the average punter believe.

For the sake of the 300kw 100K GTS Owner out there that do a 13.5, i hope not or I would feel pretty annoyed at a 50K price tag for .4 of a second.
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Old 04-24-2003, 09:06   #10 (permalink)
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Taken from Motor April 2003..

" Holden denies we've ever been given, ahem warmer jobbies, but we've been witness to Gen 3 performances that made us wonder. 13.9 is one of them...What's really curious is out inability to make any 260kw HSV sedan(which are shorter geared remember) run that hard"

Would anyone else be surprised if Holden is using LS1 edit or some such tuning mechanism to alter press cars for improved results?

Gee... Holden misleading the public..(hmmmm think Nations Cup Monaro, or the denial of the Piston slap issue) again, surprise surprise
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