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Old 06-22-2004, 07:43   #1 (permalink)
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WA Reps

OK since our un-official e-series BBQ cruise is over, it is time for all people high up to sort out the WA situation.

Currently we have one rep missing in action since a 2nd rep was appointed and now our new rep who was doing an excellent job has not been returned to the boards after a mass ban WITHOUT much explanation to many, warnings or anything. From what I understand most have copped it sweet and served it out but those you have created and disbuted about it aka our rep and I think alex.

But back to topic, I hear there were moves afoot befor the ban event to bring the rep numbers for WA back to one rep? Can someone please start answering questions and providing explanations BEFOR ACTIONS are taken and if they are taken, its not very nice removing threads/members without warning.

Now if this thread is ignored/deleted and me banned for being out spoken then you can say it would be a very sad day for WA e-series members and future of our club. As for when the next WA e-series event will be right now there will not be one until these issues are resolved.

Lets hope for all WA e-series members this is resolved soon.

Regards: WA E-series member trying to get things sorted.
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Old 06-22-2004, 20:16   #2 (permalink)
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Re: WA Reps

Ok....The story as I know it.....Your correct in saying there was a ban placed on several KEY members (I say KEY members as the WA branch of the club, while has many members, only have a select few that really contribute to discussions, meets and events, these people of the KEY members). This ban has now been lifted and all is well with the universe (to a degree anyways), I wont mention anything about the ban and its unfairness, and while i myself was banned I didnít receive any real information pertaining to it. I* would also lie to know from the moderators who made the decision if any of them are based in WA, seeing as this is a WA issue. If not should the Rep be a moderator also to put forth a view, and not only that, the rep will be at most meets and ensure that things donít happen that shouldnít?

The real issue at hand here and now is that of the WA state Rep. Currently this title belongs to both AusCarRanger (Matt) and 94EF_Ghia (Simmo). Matt has been a complete no show, not only on events and meets, but also within the forums. I personally have not heard or read from him in at least 3 - 6 months. I think Simon has done a good job at being rep, all be it a little shy because of him being a half rep and words that were said to him by Matt at the beginning of Simmo's induction as half rep. I personally think that Simon should be made Rep and Matt stricken of his "title."

This needs to be brought to a vote/poll and if this is not contested by Matt (namely he doesnít post his stepping down or post at all) then a new rep can be voted in. Obviously being a vote anybody who thinks that they have wot it takes to be a rep (and the time involved to be an active participant) should put their hand up and be involved. I donít think that 2 reps should be elected, the one should suffice.

Thatís my 2 cents
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Old 06-22-2004, 21:23   #3 (permalink)
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Re: WA Reps

OK You guy's do deserve answers. To go through and answer the issues raised.

Currently we have one rep missing in action since a 2nd rep was appointed and now our new rep who was doing an excellent job has not been returned to the boards after a mass ban WITHOUT much explanation to many, warnings or anything. From what I understand most have copped it sweet and served it out but those you have created and disbuted about it aka our rep and I think alex.

Sim took exception to his banning which led him to modifying his sig to the detrement of himself. He has there fore been put on a permanant ban from FF. This decision was made by FF admin. Alex took it upon himself to get into an argum,ent with the person who banned him and it got to a point of name calling so it was decided he won't be returning - ever.

But back to topic, I hear there were moves afoot befor the ban event to bring the rep numbers for WA back to one rep? Can someone please start answering questions and providing explanations BEFOR ACTIONS are taken and if they are taken, its not very nice removing threads/members without warning.

Yes that is true. It has been known for a while that the 2 reps could not work together and it has been put forward that having only one rep is the best solution. Sim created some pretty borderline meets. The Nudie girl photoshoot being the cream of the cake. Sim was asked to step down but as far as I can see he hasn't taken it on board and complied.

Now if this thread is ignored/deleted and me banned for being out spoken then you can say it would be a very sad day for WA e-series members and future of our club. As for when the next WA e-series event will be right now there will not be one until these issues are resolved.

No this thread will not be deleted. It will however if WA members start using it as a personal chat channel. The reason why I have had to clse so many of the WA threads is because of this. The other reason for the unsutable meets as mentioned above. The conduct from WA members (not all) has been down right appauling at times.

Ok....The story as I know it.....Your correct in saying there was a ban placed on several KEY members (I say KEY members as the WA branch of the club, while has many members, only have a select few that really contribute to discussions, meets and events, these people of the KEY members). This ban has now been lifted and all is well with the universe (to a degree anyways), I wont mention anything about the ban and its unfairness, and while i myself was banned I didnít receive any real information pertaining to it. I* would also lie to know from the moderators who made the decision if any of them are based in WA, seeing as this is a WA issue. If not should the Rep be a moderator also to put forth a view, and not only that, the rep will be at most meets and ensure that things donít happen that shouldnít?

I was the person who brought the recent situation where animal cruelty pics were posted on the forums after your WA camp. The Committee has had a lenghtly discussion and FF admin have been part of that as well. From the evidence we could see it was plainly obvious if we didnt do anything then WA branch was doomed. I am not going to go into specifics of the banning because it will embarress those who were banned for what they did. We asked for explanations over PM and the stories we got back were pretty far fetched and there was no real consistancy. So we had to go on the evidence we had (which is pretty substansial). So to answer your question who made the decision - yes the committee and FF admin. Your WA rep is on the committee and helped in the decision. It doesnt need to be stated that because there was only one person from WA that this is unfair. In the grand scheme of things the President calls the shot's.

The real issue at hand here and now is that of the WA state Rep. Currently this title belongs to both AusCarRanger (Matt) and 94EF_Ghia (Simmo). Matt has been a complete no show, not only on events and meets, but also within the forums. I personally have not heard or read from him in at least 3 - 6 months. I think Simon has done a good job at being rep, all be it a little shy because of him being a half rep and words that were said to him by Matt at the beginning of Simmo's induction as half rep. I personally think that Simon should be made Rep and Matt stricken of his "title."

There is some valid points made there. What I suggest is if you feel hard done by then make a formal complaint and the committee will reveiw it. We are all accountable for what we do and you need to follow the right path's. Sim has been asked to step down from his position for the reasons above. If you think it is unfair then please do send a PM to myself effalcon as eseries moderators or the goodz, thanatos or sundeep as representatives for the club. Your complaints will be followed up.

This needs to be brought to a vote/poll and if this is not contested by Matt (namely he doesnít post his stepping down or post at all) then a new rep can be voted in. Obviously being a vote anybody who thinks that they have wot it takes to be a rep (and the time involved to be an active participant) should put their hand up and be involved. I donít think that 2 reps should be elected, the one should suffice.

That is not for you to decide. I't fine to have that veiw but again you need to contact the people in charge and if there is enough demand then the issue will be looked at.

Thank you for bringing up these problems. Most of them the committee is aware of and things are being worked through. To give you proof there is currently a thread about 6 pages long discussing mainly the WA camp. So don't think that we are sitting around not giving a stuff (so to speak). I will be watching this thread like a hawk as will effalcon and if there is any argument's I won't hesitate to close it
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Old 06-22-2004, 23:45   #4 (permalink)
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Re: WA Reps

Allow me to join in this discussion as one of those heavily involved in the process which has resulted in the present situation.

A decision was made by the FF admins that a number of individuals should be banned as a result of certain images posted in a meet related thread. These bans were 14 days in duration and the reasons for them were clearly communicated to the recipients. This decision was advised to the E-Series admin team and endorsed by them.

Without wishing to go into great depth about the situation that led to the ban, let me just say that the responses received were not all singing the same tune and this left little real clarity in the matte. I understand from the communications I have received that the recipients largely felt they had been harshly dealt with but the decision is one that I am happy to stand by.

Subsequent to those initial bans, extensive discussion was conducted regarding one of the WA reps and it was considered (unanimously) that he had set a bad example on this and other occasions and thus his ban would be permanent. In addition to that the other former member who is also on permanent ban dug himself a hole and then climbed into it.
Those decisions both had input from WA based individuals and that input was sufficient.

It is now for the WA based members to move forward from this unfortunate set of circumastances and support their present administration in setting a better direction for the club. The FF admin team fully supports the stance taken on this matter by your administration and will provide them with every support to assist in the future building of that club.

Regards
Russ
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Old 06-23-2004, 01:32   #5 (permalink)
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Re: WA Reps

Alex and Sim were arguably the most informative and active WA members. If they are not allowed to return to the forums, I cannot see the WA branch as ever being the same. Alex has helped me greatly in this past year, while Sim has always had some quite unique, but valuable ideas. I can certainly understand why they both reacted so negatively towards the bans, and let me say that things happen in the heat of the moment that we regret later on. I'm sure they are both very appologetic for what they may or may not have said. I am still not completely aware of what has happened, but I can only see that permanent bans are very harsh and should not be given lightly. Hopefully you will reconsider their bans. In regards to the photo shoot, what's wrong with that? It's something a bit light hearted. How many car mags do you see with a few girls in it here and there wearing bikinis (or less)? From what I understood, the girl(s) weren't going to be naked. There are after all only so many cruises you can go on, doing the same old things. There's nothing wrong with a few camps and photo shoots...
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Old 06-23-2004, 01:41   #6 (permalink)
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Re: WA Reps

Quote:
Originally Posted by j_biafra88
.......... In regards to the photo shoot, what's wrong with that? It's something a bit light hearted............
You carnt be serious can you? Being dam right cruel to any animal, injured or not is just plain unthinkable.

Be ashamed of yourself if you think otherwise.
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Old 06-23-2004, 01:54   #7 (permalink)
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Re: WA Reps

Quote:
Originally Posted by laminge
You carnt be serious can you? Being dam right cruel to any animal, injured or not is just plain unthinkable.

Be ashamed of yourself if you think otherwise.
I'm not part of this WA thing, but I think he was talking about this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NZ
Yes that is true. It has been known for a while that the 2 reps could not work together and it has been put forward that having only one rep is the best solution. Sim created some pretty borderline meets. The Nudie girl photoshoot being the cream of the cake. Sim was asked to step down but as far as I can see he hasn't taken it on board and complied.
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:01   #8 (permalink)
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Re: WA Reps

Ok

Take that back..

It was the photoshoot of an injured Owl, claimed, tarnished with stickers etc, and setup in a series of shots. Thats the whole issue
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:17   #9 (permalink)
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Re: WA Reps

Well first of all I would like to thank those 'NZ' and 'russellw' for their input and allowing this open discusion to take place.

I won't go much into the banning of members over the photos, however you can't expect everyone to go sit in the corner and face the wall and not get one objection. You only just have to look at Alex's classic arguments against Lunitic to see some people don't get along over differing issues. I honestly thought he would of been gone long time ago due to a ban handed down by Lunitic due to their disagrements. Now Alex's technical knowledge will be missed, I for one would not have been able to do the CFI -> MPFI conversion without meeting him here. I think its kind of sad a member has been banned for protesting a ban. Alltho some you imply did act childishly, its like allowing people on an island then throwing a person off due to a disagrement, that person was someones friend and had skills others utilised. I just hope some more restraint can be held by both sides of an argument next time one arises. Let alone posting the animal photos I knew would of sparked some sort of reaction and shouldn't have been done period.

As for some members conduct being "down right appauling" I agree, yes pictures of what you have seen should not of been posted here. This would avoided this whole mess (well half of it). I know some pictures of the FF raids will never be posted on FF due to some peoples' behaviour, there allways will be an idiot, jock, wanker, know it all in every group (not directed at anyone just a generalisation). Its just unfortunate it occured.

WA members seem to have an average age of 20/21 years old. Do you really think we are good little boys and chums who act like boy scouts on our way to camp to earn merit badges. We are here to socialise with like mided people our age. If the "Nudie girl" photo shot did take place (low chance) you know we would of been running out of calanders to supply non WA members wanting to buy them. It was an idea that was floated to increase our activities as a group and to improve the populairty of our club and have something to show for our club rather then sounding like "hoons" to our friends because we conregate and talk cars. Bad idea some might say, but why stop us doing it we wern't the first to think/do the same idea.

Controversial issues like this have seem to divided some WA e-series members and FF staff. Deleting threads that contain these issues certainly alienates people and does NOT resolve the issue. Open discussion about what is expected and tollerated WOULD (take this thread for example).

What I think of this whole issue is that its a storm in a tea cup and taken way to seriously. If the photos did offend users (which it has) the photos should of been removed from the posts. Useless chit chat posts removed and warnings handed out. Deleting threads as you have found does not solve that issue, it creates others.

As you have said we certainly will move on from this after its all sorted. Things stand as this tho...WA e-series members will want our rep (Simon) back and Matt demoted (general census). I will stand up for Alex personally and ask for his return (after his holiday) due to his extensive knowledge. Everyone has an opinion and those are mine.

Last edited by Baxle; 06-23-2004 at 02:19. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:40   #10 (permalink)
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Re: WA Reps

Here here Baxle! I agree with you entirely!!!
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