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post #1 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 10:31 AM
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Why Are Bloody Commodores Faster?

Heya ford lovers. I had the opportunity to drive a Commodore VS early this morning 2 pick up some folks from Flinders St. Of course I gave the car a work out and was very impressed at how much grunt it had. I have also driven a EB 4.0lt falcon and it too had a auto but didn't have nearly as much grunt as the commo. Both cars are in pretty good nick.

I know that the age difference must be taken into account but seriously, there should only be about 5kw difference in power. I'm getting to thinking that the fords have a seriously shit gearbox.

Any ideas why the commodore is faster? Its giving me the shits!!!

P.S don't tell me that the diff ratio is higher cos i took the commy to 60kph in first!
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post #2 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 10:35 AM
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Weight would be the biggest single factor, and the VS' engine is probably superior in terms of overall efficiency (low friction). If Ford wanted to simply make their cars faster than Holden, they'd be able to do so - but the priorities of the average buy lie elsewhere.

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post #3 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 11:50 AM
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i think the diff ratio has alot to do with it, i just took my ea to 100km in 1st so i think this is enough differance...
post #4 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 01:00 PM
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Its not the diff ratio that makes them quicker (ED onwards and VN onwards have had the same 3.08 ratio)

Its the actual 1st and 2nd gear ratio in the Auto Transmission that makes them quicker

An Auto Falcon has 2.39:1 1st and 1.45:1 2nd (had these ratios in both the 3speed and 4speed)
An Auto Commo has 3.06:1 1st and 1.63:1 2nd (since the 4speed in the VN)

Since gear ratios basically multiply the torque, in 1st gear an EB Falcon has 830Nm and a VS Commo has 930Nm. 2nd gear is closer with 504Nm to the EB and 495Nm to the VS.

Also a VS is around 75kg-100Kg lighter.

Go drive a manual Falcon vs a Manual Commo and see which one is quicker, theres a huge difference between the performance of a Manual Falcon Vs and Auto Falcon

My old 3speed EA MPI could pull away from a mates VN going from a 50kmh roll. But once I'd hit 140kmh or so he started to gain and slowly pull away.

On the highway an Auto Falcon has the advantage.
post #5 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 01:25 PM
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Ford vs. Holden

So in theory will a manual EA with MPi beat a commodore of those ages both manual and auto off at the lights?

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post #6 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 03:03 PM
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Re: Ford vs. Holden

my ea can beat a vr v8 auto, but by a very small amount. the car is a guys i know from back at school.

that just prooves how much different the auto and manuals are.

by the way, i have a manual

the commodores also 'feel' a lot quicky, but if you watch the speedo it doesn't go up any quicker.
post #7 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 03:23 PM
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Re: Ford vs. Holden

ok, i have a question

is the reason ford gearboxes are so whiney because they have such low ratios? having driven both a VT and an AUII, the AU has more whine but less "slush" in the auto when going through the gears.

just something i noticed



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post #8 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 05:49 PM
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Re: Ford vs. Holden

must be something wrong down the drivetrain, cos it looses soo much power. The EA MPFI has 139kw and yet only gets about78kw at the rear wheels.
post #9 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 07:15 PM
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It's actually 87kW@ wheels.

Basically, Ford autos are geared for smoothness, and the Holden sacrafices this a little for performance.

As mentioned above, the manual EA will pump a large amount of Holdens, even some V8's.

The weight of the cars makes a difference, but gearing is the main problem in this case in my opinion. I would say that a manual MPI would beat an auto MPI even if it were carrying around 200-300kg more.

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post #10 of 159 (permalink) Old 02-21-02, 09:55 PM
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And 'V' formation engines make more torque than inline engines.
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