This is a copy of a thread that I posted at LS1.com. I was about to order a VY SS Ute when I had second thoughts. Nearly every third post at LS1 has something to do with piston slap, oil use, dealers that won't fix the prob, etc, etc. So this is what I posted,
"Unforunately the new beast is now another 12 months away. I am not prepared to outlay 40 - 45k for what may turn into problems. If i'm going to pay that money then I don't want hassles, I can get them with a 10k, 10 year old car.
There are too many issues with the LS1 that don't seem to be sorted. There is also the issue of dealers that aren't prepared to fully assist customers, when the dealers themselves know there are problems. I don't understand why some customers, as mentioned on this forum, have to take there car to a 2nd dealer for a 2nd opinion. It doesn't fit the criteria - what a load of crap, there is a problem, fix it. That's my way of thinking anyway.
At least this time of the year, 2004, the VY series 2 will have been released and evaluated. I can then make a decision and hopefully Holden has sorted out a problem it has had for 4 years. I can't believe 4 years later and they still haven't got it right.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. Thank you to the other forum members who assisted me with info, prices, etc. Hopefully I will be asking the same thing in 12 months time, and hopefully getting answers that the problems are all gone. At least I'll get different colors to choose form with series 2. My rumour is there will be a gun metal grey and that sounds mighty fine to me.
I test drove a VY SS Ute yesterday, and was very impressed. I just hope Mr Holden can fix the probs. I really don't want to go to the enemy."
The enemy being you guys - now I sit back and wait for you guys to tell me to get a BA. I know the BA has some advantages over the VY, however, if I am to take notice of what you guys reply, I'd like to hear some unbiased comments. Maybe some of the probs the BA has.
My bro in law is Fordhead, I think he has already told me all the pros for the BA. Damn ears are sore! Just kidding Erwin.
Best way to eval both cars is go and drive both of them like many of the fellas on here have done. I like both cars as what they have to offer for the money is very good i think. But Holden would have to prove that the GEN 3 is a good motor before I would ever touch one.
Honestly if I was in the market for a new car and I was completely unbias and had the choice of the 2 Id buy the BA. 2 reasons. The problems they seem to be having with there engines would scare me off! and The BA won Car of the year!
Otherwise I dont think theres much between them for the average person to decide on one over the other!
One of my friends bought an VY SS sedan on friday dispite my appempts to convert her or convince her to wait for the next series. Apparently the dealer told her "The problems are fixed now" Hes provided some sort of certificate stating that the car she recieved is fine along with a guarantee that any problems will be seen to straight away! Of course i instantly called her a sucker!! No problems have surfaced yet but its only been 3 days and is still being run in!
BUY A FORD!! BUY A FORD!! BUY A FORD!! BUY A FORD!! BUY A FORD!! BUY A FORD!! BUY A FORD!! BUY A FORD!! BUY A FORD!!
Honestly, i am 1, a ford fan, like many others who like their fave marque better. But, having said that i like to be picky too.
There's more to a car than who you want to "vote" for. For me it's the whole package. It's not just the best looking, the fastest, the one who you've liked since a kid, or the cheapest. Thinking that way is ok for some but i want to get what i want and what i payed for. Impressions and stories (although not all can be believed) i also take into account from those in the know as well as those who aren't.
I believe a good car is one that covers all areas. You want a car that is reliable. A car that has power and a lovely exhaust note. A car that looks horn. A car that handles a mixture of twisty and straight stuff, not one or the other, and pulls up well too. Practicality also comes into account too, what do you want as part of the package and what do you want to use it for?
After hearing a lot of stories about the Holdens, not just in GEN 3 stories but clutch, diff, and electrical problems i am a bit scepticle (sp?) about them. I know that those with probs are in the minority however, but then again the stories do pop up and i do not want to take the risk. Also stories about customer service from both dealers and from the top, makes me think there is a huge problem. Holden need to revamp their customer service division greatly before i see them again. In my experience with Ford dealers i have had not one issue, always prompt, reliable and professional, halfway there to a buy. They may have problems every so often too, but customer satisfaction is generally far greater.
When the AU's came out i was a mad Holden fan, but after driving AU's my opinion changed after comparing it with the VT, it was in fact a terrific car drive-wise. It's looks didnt appeal to everyone, but now BA does, it's very appealing. It has a good choice of engines, handling options and brakes, interior functions and practicality make it a good all-round car. The falcon ute i believe is far more practical for example than the holden with so many options available. Sure, the BA has some negative points (eg. weight) problems but Ford Oz make us cars in the $33,000-$60,000 bracket-if we want a better car, spend more on a BMW, Merc etc.
And the engines, Ford are onto a winner in the peformance stakes. You have an outstanding I6, a turbo variant and a new technology 34 valve 5.4 V8 which is only going to get better and responds well to mods. I think with the BA range they will hold very good value compared to AU, as they are popular, have long waiting lists and are in demand. VY in comparison are discounting so much they may have an AU drama on their hands later on.
I would pick the BA easy over the VY, not because of i have a small brand bias, but it has a better overall package. I think the better the package, the better the car. Both in the actual vehicle and the service.
Sorry for the bloody long post, but sometimes it's worth going into detail to point out the good/bad aspects of certain buys!
__________________ BAXR8 Ute 5M- firstname.lastname@example.org
zorst, SS Cai,240rwkw
New ls1's are now being built with a new gudgeon pin/piston set, this applies to any ls1 built during or after march (engine not car). These engines should be fit in holdens now or very soon. We will see if this fixes the problem but everyperson i have talked to who has had their engine rebuilt with the new gudgeon/piston kit has not had any problems since.
Oi Erwin , you already own a top XF ute that still goes with a push and a shove after having its nuts squeezed for 6 years via your right foot. I think you should buy another Ford right now because you know they are the best.
p.s Is that other thing in your driveway sold yet ?
one of the big points in the LS1s favour ( the ford V8 is still to new to have much experimentation) is the results of bolt ons. 13.2 from a VX SS with intake and exhaust mods only is pretty damned good. Add that to a beautiful (IMO) body, the VT VX shape and it was a great new car.
Now with the release of the VY and the BA .. no chance.
BA All The Way .. better looking, better handling and goes damned well.
now I sit back and wait for you guys to tell me to get a BA.
Get a BA. Or you could get what you want to get but just realise that you have to live with the car when it all goes pear-shaped and you $50K car turns into a $50K paper-wieght. But really we all know that - bias aside - the best car of the two is the BA. Before that it was the VX and VT, and who knows next time the title might go back to Holden with the VE...
Put aside your opinions for a minute and go and drive both the cars, or better yet get somebody you know that has absolutely NO idea what a car even is let-a-lone what a Ford Falcon BA and a Holden Commodore VY are... then get them to test drive both cars of equal measure (for your example a BA XR8 ute with NO options and a VY SS ute with NO options) and you will get a really good idea of the pros and cons of both car.
Now you say you already no the pros of the BA (quite well :s6:) well the cons I know of (read from none other then Ford Forums!) are mainly with the XR6T braking system (shuddering front brakes...) and with XT's though to Fairmonts having minor fitting problems (like carpets under the sheets not lining up and carpet behind the dash not extending all the way up). I'd attribute these things to the car being a Series I and from what I've read they are fixed up at 1st service anyway.
From what I've herd the VY is a great car too, although the styling is not for everybody, but it also has some minor teething problems much like the BA.
Either way mate I'm sure you'll be a happy chappy sitting behind the wheel of a 235kW SS OR the 260kW XR8...
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.