(EDIT) - Please see latest addition at the bottom of the page
1st off I'd like to say Welcome to everyone on the forums. I've been lurking around for sometime trying to diagnose the problems my wife is having with her car.
The car was purchased brand new in '05 & has roughly 75K miles.
About 4 months ago the check engine light came on & the car started idling really rough. I had the codes checked and this is what was found
1. P0300 - Random misfire
2. P0174 - Fuel trim bank two condition
3. P0171 - Fuel trim bank one condition
3. P2196 - Lack of H02S11 switch-sensor indicates rich
I've replaced the fuel filter, air filter, spark plugs, wires, and O2 sensors (all 4) yet the problem still exists. I've also checked for any vacuum leaks and couldn't find any.
This is REALLY bothersome because the car is way overdue for an inspection, but won't pass due to the codes it's throwing. Well that and the amount of money I've put into this thing & it still isn't running right.
Could it be the EGR/DFPE thing I've been reading about? Or could it be the IAC?
One other thing, it seems to be worst when it's cold out vs. warmer days.
So how much money did you waste throwing not needed parts at it compared to what you would spend if you sent it out to a properly qualified tech ? Now you are going to replace the EGR/DFPE and the IAC on a guess. More money down the tube. Send it out.
So how much money did you waste throwing not needed parts at it compared to what
you would spend if you sent it out to a properly qualified tech ? Now you are going to
replace the EGR/DFPE and the IAC on a guess. More money down the tube. Send it out.
You know... That was about as helpful as t--- on a bull. Go somewhere with that s---.
Anyway, I actually talked to several people including certified mechanics (cousin), multiple forums, the list goes on & on. The stealership wanted $100 just to look at it.
Last edited by tbird100636; 04-17-2009 at 21:00.
Reason: Censored reply... considering major edit
I did go some where with " that s--- " your question. You've spent money you didn't need to. You already spend over $100.00 for nothing. You could have had an answer already. Thought I'd save you from throwing away more money. Your money. Thanks for supporting out parts stores.
Last edited by tbird100636; 04-17-2009 at 21:01.
Reason: Censoring reply, possible major edit...
If you're going to give advise, then give advise. Don't throw s--- in my face. That's immature and a waste of your time & mine. Just like you give advice on this forum, I received advice from several others. Are you a certified Ford Tech? If not, then you're basically saying "Forget what I say, take it to the pro's." So if that's the case, then why are you here?
So now, do you want to lend your expert advise in a constructive manor, or are your going to continue to be arguementative?
What would you advise with as many codes as the car is throwing? "Take it to the pro's" cause you don't know what to do either? And who's to say that the pro's will be able to figure it out either? If I had a dollar for every "I took it to the dealer & they couldn't figure it out..." thread I've read I'd be able to pay my house off! :)
Basically, I'm just like anyone else on the forums, trying to save a buck.
- So far I've spent about $200. All things conciderd taking it to the dealer would be $100 minimum to look at it, then Labor at $75 hr + parts. Maybe it's me, but I've never walked out of the dealer without spending at least $500. So as it's stands, I'm still in the green.
Last edited by tbird100636; 04-17-2009 at 21:14.
Reason: Edited and censored unnecessary references
To answer a few of your questions. I'm Ford certified 13 years, G.M. certified 11 years, Dodge certified 7 years. Another thing. Your PO300, PO171, PO174 code definitions are wrong. Your HO2S sensor is working fine or it wouldn't set a rich code. I'm not throwing crap in your face. I'm telling you you will never fix this. It has to be sent to a dealer. There is a TSB on that car that sets those codes. Send it out. I know this so how come your expert techs don't ? You could have saved yourself $200.00. I tell people to send it out when I know they are getting over their heads and will be throwing parts at it all month and not getting it fixed. You try to be nice to people and save them money and this is what you get. If there is a simple problem on a car the D.I.Y.er can fix at home i'll tell them. Yours is not the case. Sorry about the post but I don't sugar coat anything. That is just a problem I have. End of discussion. good luck and hope you get it sorted.
Thanks for the help. SERIOUSLY I'm a Nissan guy myself.
But seriously, not sugar coating and just being a PITA are 2 different things. You could have simply said "There is a TSB on that car that sets those codes." "...you will never fix this", "Send it out." and I would have been a MUCH nicer person myself. I'm on the MSV (myspecV) board all day long helping people out & I've NEVER had an experience like this. Yes, you were throwing it in my face.
I must say though, now I'm in a much better mood thanks to your help. I will say, I was P----- after reading your first reply (you sounded like one of those Honda guys LOL j/k). I thought I did something wrong to you personally. I have read some of your other posts & you seem to be so nice to everyone else??
I'll go back on my word. I see you spending money and not getting it fixed. I see this all the time. I don't like to see anyone spend money they don't need to. The thing is the new cars are not always a D.I.Y. project. You have to have the proper test equipment. Prime example, the codes you have are from a " buy at the parts store code reader ". They are not even close to what a dealer code reader will show. ( somewhat close ). You have to know how to interpret the codes. If the code says 02 sensor too rich it means the 02 sensor is working. If it wasn't working it will say 02 sensor out of range or 02 sensor not responding. Yes there is a TSB on that car that will set a false code but you have to take it in to see if your car is involved. Some are some are not. Your code 171 is system too lean bank one. Code 174 is system too lean bank two. That comes from the 02 sensor. It is working. I'd look for a vacuum leak. For two banks being lean it will not be a hose it will probably be the manifold. There is also a known problem with that condition that your dealer knows about. If they don't know, I do. There is also a problem with wiring harness chafing as it enters the computer. look under the right side of the wiring harness. If it is a wire shielding chafing problem you have to replace the wiring harness.
I know from experience this is not a diy project and I will automaticly say " send it out " to everyone. I'm not perfect. I've been wrong before. Not very often but I've been wrong. I just had one of those days and you were the one. My way of not ripping your head off was to say " send it out " . If you have a problem that I think you can fix at home please call on me. I'll be glad to help. Have a nice weekend. All the best.
Thanks again. I've tried looking for a vacuum leak long ago (1st thing that came to mind) and couldn't find anything. I'm no certified mechanic, but I've done my fare share of work. I figured I'd ask around to see if it sounded familiar. it will be going in the shop soon.
I figured it would be a good idea to come back here and let everyone know what I ended up finding out about the car. I'm not sure of the name of the part (hence the reason I am back), but it's located on the left rear side of the upper intake manifold. There is a gasket there that has failed & is creating a very bad vacuum leak. I had a friend search Alldata, but he couldn't find information on it.
If anyone can help, I'll make sure to take pics & post up a "How to" once I'm done.
I need to know:
1. What is that part called so I can order the gasket
2. Does the entire upper mani need to come off?
3. Can if be removed without removing the mani.
a. I did feel around back there & tried using an allen wrench, but couldn't seem to find the correct size (4-5mm?).
b. Does it require any special tools?
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