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Old 01-27-2005, 02:11   #1 (permalink)
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spark maps for I6 - anyone have them?

hey i was wondering if anyone has any spark maps for the I6 - preferably the EB one - that i could take a look at? i dont mean the code, i just need to know what the WOT timing is through the rev range, and then the part throttle timing as well.

injector timing would be an awesome help, along with knowing if the injector timing is counted from the start or the end of the revant PIP signal.

heavy stuff i suppose but possibly aps or someone could help me out? im in the middle of tuning my car and it feels really good, im just curious to know what the ford timing maps are compared to mine.

im still using the stock A9L (mustang V8) injector timing and i reckon its way off, im down about 20hp than i should have though the acutal amount of fuel and the spark timing is ok, according to the dyno at GRP automotive...
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Old 01-28-2005, 13:55   #2 (permalink)
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Re: spark maps for I6 - anyone have them?

Fuel and Ignition for Wolf 3d Computer
Load down left side
RPM dowm to the bottom
Attached Files
File Type: xls fuel.xls (27.0 KB, 25 views)
File Type: xls ign.xls (27.0 KB, 25 views)
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Old 01-30-2005, 07:43   #3 (permalink)
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Re: spark maps for I6 - anyone have them?

From what I have read, injector timing doesn't actually matter all that much. For example, ford australia used 300degrees across the board for its V8's compared with the A9Ls 350-460degrees. Anyway, I played around with the I6 cam specs and got the injector timing values of 325 (low) 420 (mid) and 437 (high), which isnt too far off the A9L specs anyway.
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Old 01-31-2005, 04:33   #4 (permalink)
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Re: spark maps for I6 - anyone have them?

yeah i was thinking about that the other day, how come some computers have the timing all the same and others are different. what kind of cam numbers were you using when you worked out that injector timing?

it think that there might be some adders or multipliers or something at play there that we cant get to, to change the timing, because there are already so many for fuel and timing it wouldnt be that much of a stretch to imagine there is one for injector timing...

the main thing i want to do is make sure that the pulse starts as or just a slight touch after the valve starts to open, because i think that atm the injector is firing after the valve has been open for a while (using stock A9L timing, and the stock mustang cam has to be smaller than mine!) which is hurting economy IMHO.

i advanced the timing by 15 degrees across the board and seemed to get better economy :S but that could be my imagination. i will book a dyno i think and just see then.

wayneb you dont seem to be winding in as much timing as i do - im at 38 degrees by 3000rpm i think. i will have to have a closer look at your part throttle settings as well.

what air/fuel ratios are you running at WOT and part throttle? the wolf fuelling numbers dont make much sense to me :S a lot different to A9L mustang lol
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Old 01-31-2005, 06:33   #5 (permalink)
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Re: spark maps for I6 - anyone have them?

As far as I am aware, there are no multipliers etc for the injector timing, whatever that table says is when they fire. The Australian V8 actually fires the injectors before the intake valve is opened, this I have heard gives less bore wear because the fuel does not have a chance to run down the bores and wipe off the oil like it can do if the injectors are fired while the valve is open. The A9Ls fire them just as the valve opens which I would imagine is the best for power. Obviously there isn't much in it though as both the US and australian timings work quite well.

The cam specs I used were for a mild 977B wade cam, they were the only complete figures I could get, and most of the I6 cams have similar valve events which are the most important values needed to calculate injector timing.
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Old 01-31-2005, 14:30   #6 (permalink)
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Re: spark maps for I6 - anyone have them?

I have also got some advance and retard in other setting on the wolf. I dont run 95 ron all the time.
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Old 02-05-2005, 19:57   #7 (permalink)
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Re: spark maps for I6 - anyone have them?

ah no worries wayne.

EDXR8 - i was washing the car the other day and thinking a bit about this problem.

and i thought, when people say "the injector fires as the valve opens" or similar, are they assuming that the injector is situated 2mm from the valve or where its actually situated, and then allowing some time for the fuel to transport from the injector to the cylinder?

ford has a 'transport time' table for the exhaust gas to get from the cylinder to the 02 sensor, so what about from the injector to the cylinder?

from memory, the injector timing tables are upside down anyway, (as far as my brain has decided) because in theory the in from injector to cylinder would be longest at low rpm and load, so you need the most advance on the timing, then at WOT and big revs you would open the injector much later...it doesnt seem to happen that way :S
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Old 02-05-2005, 22:54   #8 (permalink)
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Re: spark maps for I6 - anyone have them?

Just on Injector open timing, I have heard (talking with mates) the injectors fire when the inlet valve is closed. The resulting spray hit the back of the valve and bounces back into the intake manifold. The Air fuel mix is then sucked in by the cylinder (N/A). It all happen within milliseconds. It sound plausible.
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Old 02-05-2005, 23:38   #9 (permalink)
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Re: spark maps for I6 - anyone have them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollin
when people say "the injector fires as the valve opens" or similar, are they assuming that the injector is situated 2mm from the valve or where its actually situated, and then allowing some time for the fuel to transport from the injector to the cylinder?
No I don't think there is any transport delay as it is only a short distance from the injector to the cylinder and as I said before it doesn't seem that exact injector timing is really needed anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayneb
Just on Injector open timing, I have heard (talking with mates) the injectors fire when the inlet valve is closed. The resulting spray hit the back of the valve and bounces back into the intake manifold. The Air fuel mix is then sucked in by the cylinder (N/A). It all happen within milliseconds. It sound plausible.
Well the fuel won't hit the valve and bounch back as there is no real flow when the valve is shut. Firing before the valve is opened would let the fuel atonomise a little bit more I would think.
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