The unichip debate...lets get I6 specific - Page 5 - Ford Forums

FPVGT · 06-22-2004, 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb2flyz

i dont think that the eec controls the vct, i think that it is controlled by a hydraulic action, depending on load and revs, correct me if i'm wrong, but if this is the case i dont think that there should be any difference in how to tune the eec over one that doesn't have vct

After some debates over chips and the tuners ability i did believe that the chips deliver the same performance gains in most cases.After some mucking around with the tuning we found some more useable power gains on the dyno and now believe that the EXEDE is just as good as anything that Unichip has to offer.I am now looking forward to the APS day as to see what power gains are achieved by the Unichip.I may be proven wrong but believe it will not match the power gains that i have made with the EXEDE.I am not bagging the Unichip as i may be proven wrong.

aps · 06-22-2004, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPVGT

After some debates over chips and the tuners ability i did believe that the chips deliver the same performance gains in most cases.After some mucking around with the tuning we found some more useable power gains on the dyno and now believe that the EXEDE is just as good as anything that Unichip has to offer.I am now looking forward to the APS day as to see what power gains are achieved by the Unichip.I may be proven wrong but believe it will not match the power gains that i have made with the EXEDE.I am not bagging the Unichip as i may be proven wrong.

Good post and I can say that I am also confident that the Unichip will provide the most consistent power result from the Ford range of engines, and this has been proven on the track..............ultimately this is the true yard stick for improved power/performance................and the quicker 1/4 mile times and higher MPH at the strip proves this true.

Mate the APS day is not about discussing other tuning products (this is best done by the manufacturer/distributor of the other product) rather an overview of Unichip tuning technology and general questions regarding ford engines and tuning related issues. I just don't want you to attend under the wrong impression.

Regards

Peter

FPVGT · 06-23-2004, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by aps

Good post and I can say that I am also confident that the Unichip will provide the most consistent power result from the Ford range of engines, and this has been proven on the track..............ultimately this is the true yard stick for improved power/performance................and the quicker 1/4 mile times and higher MPH at the strip proves this true.

Mate the APS day is not about discussing other tuning products (this is best done by the manufacturer/distributor of the other product) rather an overview of Unichip tuning technology and general questions regarding ford engines and tuning related issues. I just don't want you to attend under the wrong impression.

Regards

Peter

Peter i totaly agree i just want to see what power gains are achieved with the two different companies.I am not refering to one specific vechile.The day will defanately be kept strictly for what we are going there for and that is for a insight of tunning abilities for the BOSS and the 6's.

aps · 06-23-2004, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPVGT

Peter i totaly agree i just want to see what power gains are achieved with the two different companies.I am not refering to one specific vechile.The day will defanately be kept strictly for what we are going there for and that is for a insight of tunning abilities for the BOSS and the 6's.

Mate the only way that can be proved is by conducting dyno tests on the same car/engine as we did on marks ute, no doubt the unichip made more grunt on his engine with Unichip than the other product. I will post some interesting info on the other product very soon and this will demonstrate one technical reason only why I believe the unichip is superior to the exede.

You can't produce a decent car like the BA falcon unless you have had the experience in building previous model falcons to know where to make improvements, this equally applies to engine management products and I believe that some of the newer released interceptor products have some issues.

Peter

APS

rod · 06-23-2004, 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollin

im currently waiting for SEFI tweecer setup, as eb2flyz mentioned earlier in the thread.

total cost is coming in at a bit under 2k, using a tweecer, second had mustang 5.0 computer, modified ED wiring harness, and a second hand 75mm ford explorer MAF sensor from ebay. it comes with a guestimate tune as well, once you give pete all the details of your engine, ie cam specs, zorst mods, head mods etc.

downside is the time it takes to arrive!! i have been waiting ages, part of that was waiting for stock of tweecers from america - there was a supply prob for a few months at the start of the year - and also the MAF sensor i got off ebay is apparently unusual (what a f*cking surprise!) and its hard to get transfer functions for...

so i get fully adjustable computer control of thermo fans so i can remove the ghey temp switch, and sequential fuel injection, as well as whatever limiter i want (6200rpm, thanks :D) whatever fuel and spark maps as well.

the bonus you get with a tweecer is that you can choose from 5 different states of tune, and can switch between them while the car is driving - you have the stock tune, you can have one set up for pure top end HP at the drags with BP ultimate and octane booster, then another for good street driveability and power on premuim, then another for normal unleaded and a lower redline, then another with a 3000rpm cutout and not much timing, to keep power levels way down, for when your little bro has to borrow your car, for example

or you could set one map up with a cutout at 1300rpm, and a A/F ratio of 10:1 and bugger all timing, and switch to that when you park - if a theiving bastard gets your car running, it runs like crap and has no power, so they will in theory think its cactus and jump out and run....

i believe that it can also control the autos, and adjust shift points as well?

if you choose the tweecer RT you can actually look at the a/f ratios, timing, throttle input, load, injector pulse-widths etc etc etc in real-time on a lap top, to see how good your tune is.

also, i think that smartlock is disabled when the new computer is fitted (which doesnt matter to me, my car is like 2 weeks pre-smartlock

) and i would hazard a guess that you would not have control over cam timing on VCT cars...it may be possible to piggyback the stocko computer so all it does is cam timing, and the other computer handles the rest.

should get it soon...have to see how it goes! learning to tune it is going to be interesting as well...

something you may wish to concider is the ability to have your processor repaired or your car tuned should you have a problem, by the look of things you are importing parts for your car & are having trouble with there arrival

atleast with the Unichip it is supplied from Melbourne & if there is a problem you can quiet easly contact A.P.S. to have the fault rectified, as far as the other states are concerned there is distributors there also

see the attached link
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/fa...agents_aus.htm

with the tweecer it will only be as good as the programs that are installed in it as you arnt able to adjust them for Australian conditions, atleast with the local supplied chips you can tune them for Australian conditions & dont need to worry about haw far above ( or below ) sea level you are

regards
rod

LG · 06-23-2004, 03:38

I'm very impressed by the Unichip. But just in regards to other products in the similar price range...

What advantages does Unichip have over the Wolf3D v4? Prices are pretty much the same. But with the Wolf3D you get the added hand controller? Is the unichip as customizable as the Wolf3D is?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the Wolf3D is a stand alone system, and the Unichip system is a 'piggyback'. Why would it be better to go the piggyback, instead of a whole new system that doesn't rely on the stock ECU components.

Have you done any specific tests against the Wolf3D? Each engine's power gains from Engine Management computers differs, but Wolf3D's on average see a car's power increase anywhere between 10 and 20% (i'm approximating for the i6). So let's say 10-15rwkw for your average 4L Falcon.

Going by your website (http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/un...falcon_4L.html), this car has gained around 8rwkw. Do you see more gains from the unichip with more perfomance mods such as Exhaust, extractors, cam?

I'd just like your thoughts and expertise thanks Peter.

Quote:

No it wont make any difference if you start with an XR ECU, you will achieve the same power result as the Unichip maps both air/fuel ratios and ignition timing.

Bit off the topic, but it's pretty clear you won't benefit from upgrading to an XR ECU in terms of power, but what about Driveline benefits. Would you gain anything from the "Adapative Shift" to see gains down the 1/4 mile? Or would a simple Shift Kit, do the same job.

Thanks; I hope i've made some sense,

Lindsay

Rollin · 06-23-2004, 06:05

Quote:

something you may wish to concider is the ability to have your processor repaired or your car tuned should you have a problem, by the look of things you are importing parts for your car & are having trouble with there arrival

atleast with the Unichip it is supplied from Melbourne & if there is a problem you can quiet easly contact A.P.S. to have the fault rectified, as far as the other states are concerned there is distributors there also

see the attached link
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/f..._agents_aus.htm

the only supply problems i have been having is with the actual tweecer module, and if that craps itself then yes, i am in trouble till i can get an new one, probably the same for the computer, but there are people around that can repair them.

at no time did i say that unichips were bad, i merely stated the strangths and weaknesses of the tweecer product, as far as i know about it, and my knowlege (or lack thereof) it. im sure that the unichip is a top piggyback chip, and im sure Peter and his people can tune it to the Nth degree, and im sure there are a hell of a lot of happy customers out there. i would probably maybe even be better off with one, but my chosen cam is apparently very large, and apparently it would be hard to get a MAP based system to run properly with it due to the lack of vacuume it has, the stock computer is group fire not sequential, and plus, i just wanted to have a go too - i might make a complete balls-up of it and grenade the motor, i might get it right and lay down consistant 13.99 second passes. we will have to wait and see.

maf sensors are not a problem - i can use any ford map sensor, so long as i can get a maf transfer function for it. it might not even be necessary to get the proper function for it, as it might be possible to tune around an incorrect function - probably much like you people with 5.0Ls just swap mafs around without getting a chip, and the car still goes.

Quote:

with the tweecer it will only be as good as the programs that are installed in it as you arnt able to adjust them for Australian conditions, atleast with the local supplied chips you can tune them for Australian conditions & dont need to worry about haw far above ( or below ) sea level you are

im not sure what you mean about "tuning it for australian conditions"??? you mean hot? like texas? or cold, like alaska? i really dont see how the computer will care where it is on the globe, it measures the mass of air going in and then looks at the fuel/spark/load tables you have given it, and does its thing...if the fuel and spark tables are guessed in perth, then refined in brisbane, and the car spends 99.9% of its time in brisbane, i cant see how it would not be as good as possible (provided i tune it right, or get someone else to tune it right)

Peter - please correct me if i am wrong.

LG: i think most people go piggyback because factory computers generally have larger capabilities than aftermarket ones, ie closed loop operation, idle speed control, idle speed compensation for drive/reverse/air-con/power steer inputs etc etc - to get all that right on a completely aftermarket computer you are looking at a lot of time, and for a computer that has all those functions you are looking at a lot of money, plus installation etc.

eb2flyz · 06-23-2004, 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by rod

something you may wish to concider is the ability to have your processor repaired or your car tuned should you have a problem, by the look of things you are importing parts for your car & are having trouble with there arrival

atleast with the Unichip it is supplied from Melbourne & if there is a problem you can quiet easly contact A.P.S. to have the fault rectified, as far as the other states are concerned there is distributors there also

see the attached link
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/fa...agents_aus.htm

with the tweecer it will only be as good as the programs that are installed in it as you arnt able to adjust them for Australian conditions, atleast with the local supplied chips you can tune them for Australian conditions & dont need to worry about haw far above ( or below ) sea level you are

regards
rod

i'm currently using the twEECer to tune my xr8 and i must say that it is quite easy to use, and good in the fact that you can control to what degree you want to go with your tune, whether it be for max pwr or best drivability. another point that can be made aswell if you only make one change at a time you can find out whether or not that change is beneficial or not, if not you can just reset it back to your initial tune/settings and try something different.

as i have posted before i have made some great gains from using the twEECer product and will continue to use it for it's ease of use, and the controls in which you can adjust within the ford EEC.

i am not going to bag the unichip or other products because they have made a product which has been able to get some great results, at the end of the day it is all about personnal opinion on what you beleive is going to be the best tool to tune your car

Casper · 06-23-2004, 06:16

Ok guys, thanks for the info but it's all starting to go pear shaped form the original question.
So back on topic:

What I want to know is what peoples experiances are with the unichip on a NA I6? Does anyone actually have one fitted to an I6? Dyno's are all well and good but what sort of 1/4 time improvements have been seen by fitting a unichip. More imprtantly (as WOT is just 1 measurement) what about general driving at part throttle gains?

LG · 06-23-2004, 06:16

Thanks for that Rollin. I don't know much about it, but the Wolf3D has those functions you mentioned.

Quote:

Special Functions Included�

Single and Multi-coil sequential ignition control
Closed Loop control
Idle speed valve control
Datalogging of min/max values
Oxy (Air/Fuel Ratio) logging
Auxiliary switching output
Adjustable rev limiter
Adjustable over temperature warning and thermo fan control
Acceleration enrichment developed for best throttle response
Adjustable map compensations eg.Cold Enrichment, Air Temp, Battery Voltage
Turbo Timer output

Perhaps Peter can go into more depth of what you can do with the Unichip more, to get the most out of the I6 or out of any engine for that matter. I and many others extremely appreciate you taking the time to answer our questions about APS's products, as i'm sure you wouldn't have all that much spare time. Just like to say thank you.

And price is only ~$1395, including hand controller. So pretty much the same for the Unichip.