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Old 06-14-2005, 00:01   #1 (permalink)
Stephen F.
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Re: Careful what you wish for ('05 Focus)


"Gary McClean" <GaryNOMcCleanSPAM@PLEASE.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4294defc$0$39086$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> "Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote in message
> news:42941ad3$1@news.unibe.ch...
>> Having taken my '03 Focus TDCi Estate in for a service, I am driving
>> around in an '05 Focus 5-door as a replacement for the day.

>
> Hi Stephen.
>
> Was the '05 you got for the day a TDCi, and if so what did you think of it
> compared to your own?
>


Unfortunately it was a 1600 petrol, or "The Lame Duck" as my girlfriend
called it after a day with it. It was nasty. Loud, gutless, and slow. As
soon as I got back in my TDCi I felt like I was in a rocketship, and it's
not exactly a road-burner. On the motorway, our TDCi with bike racks on the
roof is quieter than the new Focus with the 1600, which is geared very
short. I'm sure if you really flogged it and held it to redline in each
gear you would match the performance of the TDCi... maybe. The tax
incentives would have to be huge to make me buy that combination.


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:01   #2 (permalink)
Nick the Greek
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Re: Careful what you wish for ('05 Focus)

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:18:11 +0200, "Stephen F."
<ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:

>
>"Gary McClean" <GaryNOMcCleanSPAM@PLEASE.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:4294defc$0$39086$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>> "Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote in message
>> news:42941ad3$1@news.unibe.ch...
>>> Having taken my '03 Focus TDCi Estate in for a service, I am driving
>>> around in an '05 Focus 5-door as a replacement for the day.

>>
>> Hi Stephen.
>>
>> Was the '05 you got for the day a TDCi, and if so what did you think of it
>> compared to your own?
>>

>
>Unfortunately it was a 1600 petrol, or "The Lame Duck" as my girlfriend
>called it after a day with it. It was nasty. Loud, gutless, and slow. As
>soon as I got back in my TDCi I felt like I was in a rocketship, and it's
>not exactly a road-burner. On the motorway, our TDCi with bike racks on the
>roof is quieter than the new Focus with the 1600, which is geared very
>short. I'm sure if you really flogged it and held it to redline in each
>gear you would match the performance of the TDCi... maybe. The tax
>incentives would have to be huge to make me buy that combination.
>


Facts (from the ford.co.uk website):

1.6 Duratec Petrol: 100 PS power, 150 Nm torque, 0-62 mph in 11.9 secs
(5-door)
1.6 Duratec Ti-VCT Petrol: 115 PS power, 155 Nm torque, 0-62 mph in
10.8 secs (5-door)
1.6 Duratorq TDCi Diesel Euro IV: 90 PS power, 215 Nm torque, 0-62 mph
in 12.9 secs (5-door estate)
1.6 Duratorq TDCi Diesel Euro III: 109 PS power, 240 Nm torque, 0-62
mph in 11.1 secs (5-door estate)
1.8 Duratorq TDCi Diesel: 115 PS power, 280 Nm torque, 0-62 mph in
10.9 secs (5-door estate)

Assuming you're comparing the 1.6 Petrol with the 1.6 Diesel
(otherwise the comparison is irrelevant) the Ti-VCT is at least as
fast as the 1.6 Diesel, not to say faster. In fact the Ti-VCT can be
even compared with the 1.8 Diesel.
The only explanation is that your replacement car was one with the old
100 PS 1.6 engine. The fact that it's geared very short is actually
one of the features I like very much about the new Focus, but I guess
that's a matter of personal taste.

-Nick
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:01   #3 (permalink)
Stephen F.
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Posts: n/a
Re: Careful what you wish for ('05 Focus)


"Nick the Greek" <nikko_NOSPAM_@in.gr> wrote in message
news:9g18a15cb35inh9ddmp0vde1a4ujuke5v6@4ax.com...
>
> Assuming you're comparing the 1.6 Petrol with the 1.6 Diesel
> (otherwise the comparison is irrelevant) the Ti-VCT is at least as
> fast as the 1.6 Diesel, not to say faster. In fact the Ti-VCT can be
> even compared with the 1.8 Diesel.
> The only explanation is that your replacement car was one with the old
> 100 PS 1.6 engine. The fact that it's geared very short is actually
> one of the features I like very much about the new Focus, but I guess
> that's a matter of personal taste.
>
> -Nick


On paper, running it through the gears, it's true it will keep up with the
1.8 diesel. In the real world, the wall of torque of the 1.8 leaves even
the newest 1.6 for dead. The in-gear acceleration figures are key for me,
not what it will do in a standing start sprint. Put your foot down in the
1.8 TDCi in 5th on the motorway, and it moves out in an impressive fashion.
Do that in the 1.6 and you're dead, even though it is spinning at 3500 rpm
or more at 120kph. Even a downshift to 4th didn't help much. Perhaps it was
the 100ps, but I actually found the "old" 1.6 Zetec SE engine quite nice.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my old short-geared Corolla GT-S and I wind my
MX-5 out to the redline on every shift. But... the Corolla could actually
move in 5th gear with some authority if needed, and the MX-5 is meant for
spirited driving and not much else. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age
(37) but I see also the value of a car which can quietly and quickly get on
with its business without me having to behave like a hooligan just to keep
ahead of traffic.

I stand by my (and my girlfriend's) observation: the 1.6 was a dog in
real-world driving.

Stephen


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:01   #4 (permalink)
Nick the Greek
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Posts: n/a
Re: Careful what you wish for ('05 Focus)

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:22:52 +0200, "Stephen F."
<ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:


>On paper, running it through the gears, it's true it will keep up with the
>1.8 diesel. In the real world, the wall of torque of the 1.8 leaves even
>the newest 1.6 for dead. The in-gear acceleration figures are key for me,
>not what it will do in a standing start sprint. Put your foot down in the
>1.8 TDCi in 5th on the motorway, and it moves out in an impressive fashion.
>Do that in the 1.6 and you're dead, even though it is spinning at 3500 rpm
>or more at 120kph. Even a downshift to 4th didn't help much. Perhaps it was
>the 100ps, but I actually found the "old" 1.6 Zetec SE engine quite nice.
>


Well, we all know diesel engines are superior where torque is an issue
(especially in low revs). Diesel cars have their advantages and their
disadvantages and choosing between the two is a matter of many
factors.
Anyway, you're comparing a 1.6 petrol engine -that probably hadn't
even reached its full potential- with a 1.8 diesel engine. It'd be
interesting to compare the in-gear accelerations, although I can't
seem to find the ones for the TDCi (diesel engines are prohibited in
Athens, so there is not much material I can find).

>Don't get me wrong, I loved my old short-geared Corolla GT-S and I wind my
>MX-5 out to the redline on every shift. But... the Corolla could actually
>move in 5th gear with some authority if needed, and the MX-5 is meant for
>spirited driving and not much else. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age
>(37) but I see also the value of a car which can quietly and quickly get on
>with its business without me having to behave like a hooligan just to keep
>ahead of traffic.
>
>I stand by my (and my girlfriend's) observation: the 1.6 was a dog in
>real-world driving.
>


All 1.6 petrol cars are dogs then.
And forgive me, but real-world driving is not speeding above 120 kph
with 5th gear in highways (it's illegal anyway), it's also driving
every day in a traffic jammed city like Athens.

-Nick
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:01   #5 (permalink)
Stephen F.
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Posts: n/a
Re: Careful what you wish for ('05 Focus)


"Nick the Greek" <nikko_NOSPAM_@in.gr> wrote in message
news:j9d8a1pp81ds4bpj2lnqgl3gkg1safdlc1@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:22:52 +0200, "Stephen F."
> <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:
>
> Anyway, you're comparing a 1.6 petrol engine -that probably hadn't
> even reached its full potential- with a 1.8 diesel engine.


It had 12'000 km on the clock.

> It'd be
> interesting to compare the in-gear accelerations, although I can't
> seem to find the ones for the TDCi (diesel engines are prohibited in
> Athens, so there is not much material I can find).


80 - 120kph in fifth takes about 11 seconds in the TDCi, and about 17
seconds in the 1.6, if I remember the last AutoBild test correctly. The
same relative difference holds for 50 - 80 in lower gears. That's serious
when you are pulling out to pass.

> All 1.6 petrol cars are dogs then.
> And forgive me, but real-world driving is not speeding above 120 kph
> with 5th gear in highways (it's illegal anyway)


It is in Italy, Switzerland, France, Germany, UK etc. etc.

> it's also driving
> every day in a traffic jammed city like Athens.


Agreed, and it is also passing trucks on a narrow two-lane uphill...

Stephen


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Old 06-14-2005, 00:01   #6 (permalink)
Nick the Greek
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Posts: n/a
Re: Careful what you wish for ('05 Focus)

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:17:19 +0200, "Stephen F."
<ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:

[snip]

>
>80 - 120kph in fifth takes about 11 seconds in the TDCi, and about 17
>seconds in the 1.6, if I remember the last AutoBild test correctly. The
>same relative difference holds for 50 - 80 in lower gears. That's serious
>when you are pulling out to pass.
>


Noone would go for 80-120 with 5th gear on a petrol car :-) You have
to compare relevant things.

>> All 1.6 petrol cars are dogs then.
>> And forgive me, but real-world driving is not speeding above 120 kph
>> with 5th gear in highways (it's illegal anyway)

>
>It is in Italy, Switzerland, France, Germany, UK etc. etc.
>
>> it's also driving
>> every day in a traffic jammed city like Athens.

>
>Agreed, and it is also passing trucks on a narrow two-lane uphill...
>


I think I've done that once in 13 years. Which proves that things like
that are purely subjective.

-Nick
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Old 06-14-2005, 00:01   #7 (permalink)
Nick the Greek
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Posts: n/a
Re: Careful what you wish for ('05 Focus)

The in-gear acceleration times for the 5D New Focus Ti-VCT are as
follows:

3rd gear
30-50 4.0
50-80 5.8
80-110 6.4

4th gear
40-60 5.6
80-110 8.0
120-140 7.0

5th gear
50-70 7.1
80-110 11.8
120-140 10.4

and that makes it faster than the New Opel Astra 1.6, the Golf 1.6 Fsi
and as fast as the C4 1.6.

-Nick
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