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Magna V8 ambush plot

10K views 59 replies 51 participants last post by  gm dstroya 
#1 ·
From Herald-sun newspaper:

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Mitsubishi is plotting to turn home-grown V8 Supercar racing into a three-sided title fight.

It is developing a top-secret Magna V8 racer capable of threatening the Commodores and Falcons which compete in the touring car championship class.

It refuses to even discuss its V8 Supercar ambitions, but all three of its local showroom rivals - including Toyota - are aware of the Mitsubishi move and are openly discussing their response.

Mitsubishi could put a Magna V8 out as early as next year, using an American Chrysler power plant turning the rear wheels, although 2004 is a more likely start-up date. "They have an engine and they've sent a couple of Magna bodies to the US for development" said a senior executive at one of Mitsubishi's rivals.

Toyota has also considered joining the V8 Supercar war, but believes a V8-powered , rear-wheel drive Camry would be too much of a stretch from the V6-engined, front-drive cars it sells in showrooms.

A racing plan for Brand T has twice been taken to the company's top Australian executive, John Conomos, only to be rejected by the senior executive vice-president because of the unproven benefit of competing with a V8 Camry.

The governing body of V8 Supercar racing, Avesco , is also aware of Mitsubishi's plan , but refuses to talk.

But Avesco chairman Tony Cochrane admitted the series could be opened to a third carmaker if it had enough money, satisfied some tough conditions, and would be accepted by fans.

"For a start, it would have to be a local. We're not intersested in overseas brands," Cochrane said. "We would also have to do research with our fans. It would be quite a detailed and costly process."

Cochrane estimated the bill for a start-up carmaker in V8 Supercars would be around $10 million, from the first $200,000 "seed" money for permission to begin development work through to $4 million first-year racing budget.

But Holden and Ford aren't likely to welcome Mitsubishi - or any other newcomer - to their private V8 Supercar battlefield.
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Correct me if i'm wrong but did'nt Mitsibishi have money problems and almost shut down?
This category is Ford vs Holden and it should stay that way.
Ford and Holden race in the series to sell cars in the showroom.
If Mitsibishi built V8 rear-wheel drive cars for the showroom then i'll understand for them entering the series but they don't, so what's the point?

It's just my opinion :shrug:
 
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#2 ·
I don't think they should be alowed until they sell RWD V8 sedans. Up until then no way. If they do this then great. Let them enter. Imagine the whole parity debate if they did enter though..
 
#4 ·
It would make a complete joke of the whole thing if they let mitsubishi and toyota race cars they don't even sell. Let them race them as they sell them FWD, now that would be a larf.

MMMM hope they don't go AWD
 
#5 ·
00 Motorsport said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but did'nt Mitsibishi have money problems and almost shut down?
They'll just get another handout from the Govt, they'll have plenty of $pare buck$ to throw away from the fifty new speed cameras they are installing in NSW.
 
#9 ·
MMM chrysler. MMMM imagine a 426 hemi powered RWD Magna!
ANyway, I agree, they as well as Toymota shouldn't be alowed to enter till they sell RWD V8 cars.

Besdies that, the poeple who like mitsubishi and toymota don't like them becasue of magna and Camry. They like them for cars like the Supra and Evo's as thier cars are "V8 killers". This would be going out of thier target market.

If you look at it the other way though, myself, like many other poeple on this board, still follow rally with "4 cylinders missing" and would also love to see the Focus RS come into Australia.
 
#11 ·
FM said:
I don't think they should be alowed until they sell RWD V8 sedans. Up until then no way. If they do this then great. Let them enter. Imagine the whole parity debate if they did enter though..
Hey,

Toyota and Nissan most definitely make RWD V8 Sedans..... We just dont get them here. But they exist - saw them at the Tokyo Auto Salon. Toyota have the Lexus range of V8s, as well as the Crowns, Cressedas etc. Nissan have the Cedric (yes it still exists!) the Gloria etc.

Example: the Nissan Cedric is about the same size as a Falcon, although the shape is a little like the EA-ED Falcons - squarer, but with curved edges. I think it runs a 4.5L Quad Cam V8 (not sure on the capacity, but its about that). If I can find a photo I'll post it, but until then, have a goosey at www.junction-produce.co.jp They modify Japanese V8 Sedans "VIP" cars.

I dont know if Mitsubishi and Honda make a RWD V8 Sedan, but judging from the cars on the roads, this class is one of the biggest in Japan - aside from Taxis and 660cc Kei cars. I saw more modified Cedrics on the road than Silvias. It comes down to "status". A V8 Cedric is more expensive than a Silvia, so therefore if you own a Cedric youre richer, more important, have more status. And theyre everywhere. Oh, and the Japanese RWD V8 Sedans are called "VIP Cars".

Id like to see a few Japanese car makers get involved in the V8Supercars. Falcons are going OHC, so why not? An engine of around 4.5-5L, OHC, V8, RWD - Ford, Toyota, Nissan all have the platform in production (come the end of the year!) - and it'll show up the lack of technology in the "power at all costs" approach that Holden has.

As for parity, well, even if Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi etc join, it'll still be one rule for HRT one rule for everyone else......

L8a,
Prud
 
#12 ·
Yeah those Nissan 4.5L V8s make 250Kw stock (in the Infiniti Q45 in the US)

I dont see whats wrong with Magnas entering, I find V8 supercars quite boring so another car may make it atleast a little interesting for a while.
 
#13 ·
Mr Jucy said:
Screw that until they make a RWD V8 stuff em
I'm with you, until Toyota and Mitsubishi can enter a V8 RWD then they should keep out of it.

I for one would like to see this happen. I'm all for Ford / Holden battles on the track but I think that it does need some diversity to keep it interesting.

I heard that Toyota was looking at a V8 Avalon to enter, not the Camry
 
#14 ·
Jamie XR6 said:
I heard that Toyota was looking at a V8 Avalon to enter, not the Camry
Hey,

The Avalon is a car that represent Corporate Idiocy IMO......

Now for a broad generalization: If an Australian wants to buy a family sized car, they want RWD - with the option of a V8.

Toyota already make a few RWD V8 cars in Japan - the Mark II series and the Toyota/Lexus cars just for starters. Judging from the number of "grey imports" - which by the way, the Head of Toyota Oz believes they are death traps - on our roads, the laws of Japan cannot be that dissimilar to our own. So if the little guys of the car industry can do it, surely the manufacturer can too......

So why did they choose to bring in the FWD Avalon? Dont they like selling cars?

L8a,
Prud
 
#15 ·
Prud said:


Hey,

The Avalon is a car that represent Corporate Idiocy IMO......

So why did they choose to bring in the FWD Avalon? Dont they like selling cars?

L8a,
Prud
You hit the nail on the head. What was running through their mind? They bring out an outdated, unwanted car that was designed for America, change the suspension and declare that it was wholy designed for Australia? No wonder you don't see that many on the road.
 
#16 ·
Let em in!! The more the merrier. After all, the whole concept is flawed anyway. I don't see what the big song and dance is about - the Falcons and Commodores in the Supercar series are completely removed from the roadgoing versions, so what's the problem letting in a couple of Magna and Avalon body-shell based racers as well??

The GTP series is far closer to reality, but AVESCO in their infinite wisdom is stepping in more and interfering in the name of "close racing". For f**ks sake, set some basic rules and then let the merits of the individual cars do the rest!! Stop crippling the XR's with rev and weight penalties!

At this rate I might end up only watching and supporting F1.. ugh!
 
#17 ·
Mr Sparkle said:
Let em in!! The more the merrier. After all, the whole concept is flawed anyway. I don't see what the big song and dance is about - the Falcons and Commodores in the Supercar series are completely removed from the roadgoing versions, so what's the problem letting in a couple of Magna and Avalon body-shell based racers as well??

The GTP series is far closer to reality, but AVESCO in their infinite wisdom is stepping in more and interfering in the name of "close racing". For f**ks sake, set some basic rules and then let the merits of the individual cars do the rest!! Stop crippling the XR's with rev and weight penalties!

At this rate I might end up only watching and supporting F1.. ugh!
Point taken about V8's. I mean come on, if the cars wee even remotely close to real the ford's should be kicking arse.

Also the thing I love about F1, and Ive said it before is that it's a displacement limited category, but you can still pump out as much HP as you want.
 
#18 ·
Mr Sparkle said:
Let em in!! The more the merrier. After all, the whole concept is flawed anyway. I don't see what the big song and dance is about - the Falcons and Commodores in the Supercar series are completely removed from the roadgoing versions, so what's the problem letting in a couple of Magna and Avalon body-shell based racers as well??

The GTP series is far closer to reality, but AVESCO in their infinite wisdom is stepping in more and interfering in the name of "close racing". For f**ks sake, set some basic rules and then let the merits of the individual cars do the rest!! Stop crippling the XR's with rev and weight penalties!

At this rate I might end up only watching and supporting F1.. ugh!
Hear, Hear. Set the rules at the start of the year, then stick to them. Adjust 'em for the next season, when all the tracks, race lengths etc have been taken into account. Knee jerk reactions always suck!!
 
#19 ·
I am really not to sure about this...

I LOVE the playfull Ford vs Holden rivalry from the V8SC's... and I think there should be more RWD V8's on the market.

Mitsubishi having there new car developed in the US sounds like they are gonna release it there too ( and we all know the US want RWD V8's)

Let them release the car - but for the racing.... dont let them in until they have sold a certain amount.
 
#20 ·
I believe having Mitsu enter in the V8 competition would spoil the category.

As far as I'm concerned it's all about Fords v Holdens.

I think they'd be a welcome addition to GTP however...
 
#22 ·
BlownXR6 said:

Give me GTP over the V8's any day.
Exactly!!!!!

The V8 supercar category would be improved IMO if Mitsu and even Toyota were allowed to field cars. It would be better on the eyes; I mean, how many Commodores and Falcons do you have to see going around a track!!!! Variety is the spice of life I reckon.

Let's be realistic, the V8 Supercars have NO mechanical commonality at all with the cars people buy; how many VX SS Commos do you see with Watts Linkage Live axles and 5.0 litre Chev V8's? How many AU Falcon XR8's run the Watts Linkage and six speed manual gearboxes???

Yes, V8 Supercar racing is a marketing tool and success on the track does probably translate to sales, but that's as far as the relationship goes.

Let's put the V8 Supercar category into perspective; they are not representative, and bear no valid mechanical resemblance to what can be purchased from a dealership (unlike the old days where the GT's, HO's, Monaros and XU-1's etc which raced around Bathurst WERE road cars with some necessary race mods.) You wanna see racing on Sunday which bears some resemblance to the cars you can buy on Monday, watch GTP.

I for one would be happy to see another make introduced to the category, purely to provide relief from the repetitiveness of having 30+ Falcs and Commos on track.
 
#23 ·
Chill

dudes,

so what if you cant go out and but a supercar that has all the same gear on it.How many of us can afford to go out and buy a lambo or a 360 or viper or any of that stuff that runs round in nations cup or any f1 car. It isn't about being able to drive it, its about wanting to drive it.

V8 supercars is base entertainment that draws in people like you and me with a passion for different sides of the Aussie Automotive fence to scream when we win and winge when we loose.

When we dig at AVESCO (when it should be TEGA) we gotta admit that more people are attending, more people are watching and more sponsors are paying to provide our entertainment. Did anyone note that between i think 16 and 25 (dont quote exactly)on the adelaide grid was around .4 sec.

Sure I love to take the P!ss when TWR win most of the time and perhaps some DTM style weight penalties should come into play how else can you expect local teams to compete with a Racing Multinational but hey overall the product is good and the people are voting with their eyeballs.

Mitsu and Toyo's running, do any of us really aspire to driving one of those. No. End of Argument.
 
#25 ·
Re: Chill

05forever said:
dudes,

so what if you cant go out and but a supercar that has all the same gear on it.How many of us can afford to go out and buy a lambo or a 360 or viper or any of that stuff that runs round in nations cup or any f1 car. It isn't about being able to drive it, its about wanting to drive it.

V8 supercars is base entertainment that draws in people like you and me with a passion for different sides of the Aussie Automotive fence to scream when we win and winge when we loose.

You're right when u say it is just entertainment, but the Nations Cup cars are based on road cars one could purchase if wealthy enough to do so. Even if one was wealthy enough to purchase a V8 supercar, I'm sure they'd find it rather difficult to register the thing (unlike the Nations cup cars.)
 
#26 ·
Adam W said:

Mitsubishi and Toyota (especially) have no real support base so I doubt they would attract more fans to the races, they may actually turn people away.
Hey,

I dont know, theres a lot of support in the 4 cyl world for Toyotas and Mitsubishis...... We sling off at the Mirage/Starlets running around but there is a lot of them. And Toyotas and Mitsubishis are probably the toughest cars I know..... Can anyone say 7500+rpm "launches" (Neutral to Drive) and 7500rpm gear changes? In an Auto SV21 Camry? For 180,000 kays? And Sigmas that can hit telegraph poles, snap the pole, then drive home?

Toyota was quite popular when they were running in the WRC, Same as Mitsubishi now........ Then have a look at the Evos and the Supras - how many cars do you see running around with an Evo bodykit?

Bring em on I say. As long as the start selling a RWD V8 sedan in oz.....

And for smeggs sake can we have a Japan GT series style weight penalty? They run it as you win, you get weight added which decreases over the next 3 or 4 races.

L8a,
Prud
 
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