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Old 11-21-2003, 18:17   #1 (permalink)
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Toyota faces track attack

Toyota will strike a frosty reception if it decides to enter V8 Supercar

By BRUCE NEWTON 17 November 2003


TOYOTA faces a bloody fight with Ford and Holden if it green-lights a bid to enter the V8 Supercar battlefield.

The increasingly popular championship has been limited to the Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore for its 10-year history.

But now Toyota Australia is examining the prospect of making it a three-way fight, with marketing general manager Scott Grant a driving force behind the idea.

Toyota has twice previously rejected entering V8 Supercar.

But Mr Grant, with four years working for Toyota in the US under his belt, has pushed the idea to the forefront as part of a plan to energise the Toyota brand in Australia.

The fact that V8 Supercar is based on rear-wheel drive 5.0-litre V8 sedans Ė vehicles Toyota Australia does not sell Ė is not an obstacle. There is no homologation rule and many parts are standardised under technical rules called Project Blueprint. And an appropriate push-rod engine could be sourced from Toyota Racing Developments in the US.

Mitsubishi Australia would also like to be in V8 Supercar, but unlike Toyota lacks the estimated $10 million needed to kickstart a racing program.

The two candidates for a Toyota V8 Supercar program would be the domestically manufactured Camry or Avalon, both due for overhaul in 2006.

Toyotaís research shows that its international involvement in Formula One and the local rally campaign generates little general interest.

Fundamentally, itís the V8s or nothing. And thatís something Ford and Holden are very much aware of and explains why they are determined to keep Toyota and its millions out of the category.

"Holden and Ford have built this series," Ford Australia president Geoff Polites told GoAuto at the penultimate championship round at Pukekohe in New Zealand, witnessed by more than 91,000 fans over the meetingís three days.

"You change things when a change will improve it, but the reality is what we have got works and it doesnít need a radical change.

"Just look at the crowd here and look at all their gear. The Holden tattoos, the Ford tattoos. Why would you change?

"The only people screaming out for change are those on the outside who want to get in for their own marketing purposes and why would we help them Ė particularly Toyota?

"Toyota donít have a rear-wheel drive V8, they donít sell one, they donít market one, they donít make one. We do. So why would we help them?"

A complication in all this is the manufacturers have no control over a decision to allow other rivals into the class.

V8 Supercar is run by a company called AVESCO, which is owned 75 per cent by the teams and 25 per cent by SEL, a sports and entertainment promotions company.

Arguably, Holden and Ford control many proxy votes through the millions of dollars they pour into V8 Supercar racing teams every year. But race teams are expensive to run and may be swayed to vote for Toyota by the prospect of better budgets.

Holden director of performance products and racing Ray Borrett said Toyota entering V8 Supercar would negatively affect Holdenís attitude to the sport. If it did go to a vote, he rated Toyotaís admission as a 50:50 prospect.

"Thereís been a significant investment by Ford and Holden over the years by the way of sponsorship of the teams and building up the category," Mr Borrett said.

"While AVESCO will claim all the credit for that, they could not have done it without our support.

"We would not want to see another manufacturer coming in and getting a free lunch, taking advantage of our investment."


Article at GoAuto http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...0v8%20supercar

So what do you think about this?
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Old 11-21-2003, 19:21   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Toyota faces track attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOT Falcon 88
"Toyota donít have a rear-wheel drive V8, they donít sell one, they donít market one, they donít make one..."
Ok, so we all know know there is a vast difference between the Ford and Holden V8 supercars and what you can go and buy from your local dealer. But at least you can buy a rear-drive V8, Ford or Holden.

There would be a MUCH bigger difference between a Toyota (or Mitsubishi, for that matter) V8 supercar and what they sell in their dealerships.

I'm not quite sure what to think of it.

It could possibly work in the favor of both Ford & Holden, if you look at it this way: another manufacturer enters competition, therefore attracting more of the car buying public, who then go to their Toyota (or Mitsubishi, if they were to get into the series) dealership and discover there is nothing that the dealer can offer them that is anywhere near what won the last race, so they then head off to their local Ford (or Holden) dealer and end up buying a V8 from there, which may not have interested them if it was still a 2 horse race.

On the other hand, there is the thought that the other manufacturers only want to become involved now that the series has a reasonable public profile, and so perhaps they shouldn't be involved since they've had nothing to do with it until now...

I dunno, but I think if they were to become involved, then both Ford and Holden would kick their @sses on race day!
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Old 11-21-2003, 19:22   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Toyota faces track attack

Bloody right, too many manufacturers can wreck a series. Ford vs Holden is the way it should stay. The series has never been better and more even then now so why change it.
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Old 11-21-2003, 20:28   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Toyota faces track attack

V8 Supercars need other manufacturers to survive in the long run. Better yet go back to Group A racing.

The sooner Mitsubishi and Toyota join the better. Competition improves the breed and without competition, Ford and Holden are only going to react to each others changes to improve.
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Old 11-21-2003, 21:24   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Toyota faces track attack

Tell them to go fist themselves.

Holden and Ford have built this series for decades. The Ford holden battle has been rageing forever and I don' want them to let a spoilt brat japanese car co to come in and ruin it for them. And us.
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Old 11-21-2003, 22:01   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Toyota faces track attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOT Falcon 88

"Thereís been a significant investment by Ford and Holden over the years by the way of sponsorship of the teams and building up the category," Mr Borrett said.

"While AVESCO will claim all the credit for that, they could not have done it without our support.

"We would not want to see another manufacturer coming in and getting a free lunch, taking advantage of our investment."
EXACTLY. Ford and Holden still poured MILLIONS of $$$$$ when the series was having a sluggish start and no one wanted in then. NOW when the series is as popular as ever, as popular as Group A was ever Toyota want in. It ain't gonna happen toyota. Enter into the PROCAR championship or GTP or Nations Cup (whatever they call it now). That series is growing ten fold and you can enter you camry sportivo for a run with the WRX's/EVO's and the mighty GT
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Old 11-21-2003, 22:45   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Toyota faces track attack

Imagine the reaction if a "Toyota Avalon" wins Bathurst?? Shades of '92 methinks........
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Old 11-22-2003, 04:13   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Toyota faces track attack

When the V8s split from the super tourers, and the super tourers kept the original bathurst date, Ford and Holden poured their $$ and support behind the V8's, and they have a successfull series. why would anyone want to mess with something that works, except for the manufacturers that bet on the wrong horse... seen any super tourers in australia lately....
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Old 11-22-2003, 06:00   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Toyota faces track attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil CV8
When the V8s split from the super tourers, and the super tourers kept the original bathurst date, Ford and Holden poured their $$ and support behind the V8's, and they have a successfull series. why would anyone want to mess with something that works, except for the manufacturers that bet on the wrong horse... seen any super tourers in australia lately....
Only in the for sale columns!

Super Tourers make sense in the UK they all drive those noddy cars there. The V8s are successful in Aus because they are aussie and have some relevance to the petrol heads cars we can all buy or aspire to. Super tourers yeah they were a giggle in Aus but never pulled a crowd.

Group "A" was crap and put Aussie racing way backwards, I have the Ford Tattoo but I could never get too excited about Sierras you couldn't buy here.

This silly 24hr with a Munro that plays by different rules to the other cars. How many are there 2-3,000 a hell of a lot less than the real Bathurst or the crowd that will be at the Creek next weekend. (Watching Marcos take the title!)

Everyone can see through the poo and the attendances show the story for the formulas.

V8 superar isn't perfect but it is the best formula so far and it doesn't need pretenders like magna and camry involved. When these Aus/Jap manufacturers sell genuine affordable performance muscle cars in volume they can come back and ask to play.

Toyota marketing execs should take a look at the public acceptance of a mega buck 4wd nissan winning by pranging in the wet.

Racing an Avalon, no please no! Flashbacks of that damn Volvo turbo.
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Old 11-22-2003, 06:03   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Toyota faces track attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil CV8
When the V8s split from the super tourers, and the super tourers kept the original bathurst date, Ford and Holden poured their $$ and support behind the V8's, and they have a successfull series. why would anyone want to mess with something that works, except for the manufacturers that bet on the wrong horse... seen any super tourers in australia lately....
Exactly
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