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FPV - Time to Lift Your Game (long)

10K views 54 replies 33 participants last post by  galaxy xr8 
#1 ·
Subtitle:How to take a really good concept and roger it senseless.

I'm mostly a patient person and very few things really get my goat. One of the things that does is incompetence. Not from people who are incapable but from those who should be able to achieve better than they actually do. This applies equally to organisations that do not perform as well as the sum of their parts indicates they should and at the moment I am putting FPV fair and square in that category. Underperformers.

This is no reflection on the many hard working people who strive to produce a quality product but rather more a shot at some of the back room boys who seem to have not quite got their heads in the right place. Or more correctly they seem to have them in the wrong place which is up their ass.

From an outsiders view, FPV gives the appearance of an organisation that has bitten off a fair bit more than it can chew at the moment. With the introduction of the BA XR, FPV GT and the added burden of FPR it may well be a case that the resources are being stretched a bit too far. But I'm not here to make excuses - in the final analysis the paying punter has a right to expect that he is handing over his folding stuff to people who have a clue what they are doing and I'm not overly convinced that this is the case. If that upsets some people then so be it. It's an opinion and you can do with it what you will.

Now I don't like to present unsupported arguments so bear with me while I build my case.

It is fairly well documented that there have been extensive delays in the release of various FPV related product.Let us look at some of these in a little more detail.

1. XR8 automatic transmissions - not directly FPVs fault but the delays still impacted on the release of this product and caused delays for customers and this process should have been managed better both from an engineering view and customer expectations.

2. Shortages. Here we can list wheel shortages, paint shortages, painted part shortages (bumpers), trim shortages (well none isn't actually a shortage) and probably others as well that I don't know about. Worse still they are still continuing. The worst thing you could order at the moment would be a Blueprint GT-p with cloth seats - good luck if you have one on order. Now these shortages are in the control of FPV even if they are reliant on external providers - the responsibility for ordering sufficient stock is in the hands of both the product planners (to predict build numbers and mix) and those who actually order components and deal with suppliers. Seems that FPV have traded JIT (just in time) for WTL (way too late) in this area and it isn't good enough.

3. Production scheduling. Not probably known by many but the assumption that cars are built in much the order they are ordered is a fallacy at FPV. For whatever reason (presumably the shortages mentioned above) the only orders that were filled when production first ramped up were those that fit the available parts. Consequently a number of newly ordered cars that were fortunate enough to meet the available build specs got built before those who had been waitring for months. Another positive step on the road to customer loyalty and satisfaction.

.. and the delays continue......

I'm reminded of a comment made by one of the US Ford Engineers who expressed his surprise that the FPV engineers had managed to produce the Boss "hybrid" engine in such a short time but perhaps we are starting to understand now that there might have been a small lack of attention to detail in that development process. Not that all of the blame for the present delays can be laid at FPVs door but some of it belongs there. Either way it's the customer that gets the short end of the stick again although the lack of cash flow must be starting to bite at FPV by now. Don't ship - don't get paid.

It is admirable that FPV are making an effort to ensure that the product is free from major bugs and I am happy about that but there is also such a thing as timeliness and communication and frankly on both points the score is a big fat zero. The dealer network is fed half baked information (mostly because they aren't trusted) and thus the customer is fed a combination of half truths and garbage that isn't terribly palatable. Heaven forbid (of course) that a manufacturer would publicly acknowledge problems until well after the fact (where they get referred to as "challenges") but it would be really nice for someone to start the trend. Dreaming again I know.

In conclusion let me say that I am disappointed in the performance of the totality that is FPV. I'm sure that HJ isn't overly impressed with some of it either but as a good boss he will defend his people as he should. They are mostly good people - certainly those I've met who have a committment to excellence that must be causing them some frustration in the present unfortunate circumstances. None the less I return to the view of the paying punter. It is unacceptable that cars have sat at FPV for months (as some have) and that the car park there presently resembles a Coles car park (but with better parking). In my view it is time the game was lifted a few notches and quickly.

If this has rambled a bit then please accept my apologies. It's been edited numerous times to remove some of the detail, invective and potentially defamatory comments made in the original version.
 
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#4 ·
Although i agree with u on this russ, it seems they are already working way more hours than they usually would. It must be hard and i think that if u were doing it, u would have a completely different story. I understand peoples frustration in waiting for the cars, but when so many are on order, and considering the production line size, its a big ask. I am not making excuses for FPV, rather, just throwing up there situation.

It would be interesting to get Flints opinion on this, as then we might have a proper idea of why it takes so long to deliver.
 
#5 ·
Russell,
I think you have to differentiate between FPV as an engineering company and FPV as a manufacturer. I believe that FPV have engineered some excellent machines and the only small complaint I have is that they have blunted the performance chasing drivability. I also believe that they mave made a "marketing" blunder with the XR6T matching the XR8. Maybe developing the new range of engines stretched Ford/FPV too much.

The production process seems to have some problems and it's hard to argue with the facts as you present them. You are perhaps a bit harsh with the XR8 auto example. The problems were out of their control, what should they do, hold up the release of all models?
 
#6 ·
One of the problems is that if I were to go out tomorrow to buy a performance car, I can go to my local ford dealer and get told that I will have to wait x months for the car I want.

Or alternatively I can go around the corner to the local holden dealer and possibly pick the car I want off the lot or if I want something a little different, wait a fraction of the time that I would have to wait for the ford.

It's supply and demand, Holden can supply more but have a lesser demand. Ford has a larger demand than supply, it's good to see the blue oval selling well again but those units really need to get to the customers and out on the road.
 
#7 ·
John McMaster said:

How can we help to overcome these failings???
Hence it not us to overcome such failings, it soley rest on one mans shoulders to come clean and educate not only the public, but the dealer network as to why delivery of vehicles to consumers has staled!


Harsh! Maybe!
Worng Attitutde! Maybe
Will I continue to buy Fords in the future. YES!
 
#8 ·
russellw said:
Subtitle:...It is admirable that FPV are making an effort to ensure that the product is free from major bugs and I am happy about that but there is also such a thing as timeliness and communication and frankly on both points the score is a big fat zero. The dealer network is fed half baked information (mostly because they aren't trusted) and thus the customer is fed a combination of half truths and garbage that isn't terribly palatable. Heaven forbid (of course) that a manufacturer would publicly acknowledge problems until well after the fact (where they get referred to as "challenges") but it would be really nice for someone to start the trend. Dreaming again I know....
That right there to me is a big problem. Whilst the customer will be upset that their delivery may be late, the greater pain can come from not knowing and getting the impression that FPV doesn't care.

For mine the frustration I found, in waiting for my cars delivery, wasn't so much that it was past it's due date, but the fact that no-one took the time to tell me that it was going to be late. I was the one who ended up calling, I was the one who received some fairy story from the dealer and ultimately I was the one who ended up getting frustrated and disappointed in the buying experience.

What is surprising is that for the sake of a weekly phone call to the customer from FPV, advising of updates on the ordered vehicle or even reasons why there is a delay would, I believe, go a long way in settling customer relations.

The decision on buying a "performance" based car tends to be, in part, an emotional based one, and as such people in this buying segment tend to expect more. So at least give them the impression that FPV's on top of things and tell the customer what they need to hear.
 
#9 ·
It is right to say that a clear distinction needs to be made between the marketing and production efforts of FPV. The post was mostly aimed at the production efforts but let's not leave the product planning and marketing people out of the firing line either.

I was really pleased when I heard that FPV would be performing its own marketing - I've not been a fan of the efforts in that area from Ford Australia for a very long time and the prospect of some new talent offered hope for improvement. On the merchandise side of the coin it looks as if someone has the right ideas and deserves a big vote of thanks for their efforts to date - let's hope it keeps up.

Product planning and the marketing side seems to have been drinking the same stuff that the Ford people use. Let's just look at a couple of specifics:

1. The reality of the product positioning between Ford/FPV product lines has once again created a situation where the so called 'halo' vehicles do not represent the top of the performance pinnacle. Make all the excuses you like but the reality exists that the XR6T is capable of creaming not just its XR8 cousin but the entire FPV range. Good news for the turbo buyer and a disaster for the FPV one. I can already predict what this is going to do for the projected 3 year resales of the respective vehicles on a percentage basis and it isn't pretty - and off a much higher base too.

2. Further to that I gather that the SMS will have another surprise in store on the turbo front that will make the situation even worse - what are these people thinking??

3. Marketing campaigns for the FPV range? Can't comment as I can't say I'm aware of any. An indictment in itself.

4. Probably the craziest move of the lot is to reduce the dealer margin on the FPV range to the point where there is considerably greater incentive for them to sell XR8's than FPV's. Now I understand the desire to bring product to the market at competitive pricing and I'm all in favour of that but the reality is that the frontline sales people aren't stupid when it comes to calculating their (margin based) commissions. Which do you think they are going to do: sell the XR8 with a few options or the FPV (a harder sell due to the higher price) and effectively reduce their take by 40%. Tough call.

I'm being harsh here I know. But these decisions are in the public forum and therefore open to criticisim when they fail to make sense. For all the good things that are going on in Ford/FPV - there are also some things that leave the faithful wondering.
It's time for some answers but I doubt that we'll get much more than the standard platitudes and blanket defence of the "hard working and dedicated team" - which they are but which doesn't help us to understand.

Cheers
Russ
 
#10 ·
russellw said:
1. The reality of the product positioning between Ford/FPV product lines has once again created a situation where the so called 'halo' vehicles do not represent the top of the performance pinnacle. Make all the excuses you like but the reality exists that the XR6T is capable of creaming not just its XR8 cousin but the entire FPV range. Good news for the turbo buyer and a disaster for the FPV one. I can already predict what this is going to do for the projected 3 year resales of the respective vehicles on a percentage basis and it isn't pretty - and off a much higher base too.
Don't get me started on this again Russ! Think Targa Tasmania for the hero car of the entire range.

russellw said:
2. Further to that I gather that the SMS will have another surprise in store on the turbo front that will make the situation even worse - what are these people thinking??
As I said many moons ago.. Aren't the GT buyers going to be really happy about this vehicle in the range.
Stupidity in the extreme. Great concept no doubt, but FFS.. PRICE IT ACCORDINGLY!!!!
 
#11 ·
FM said:
Stupidity in the extreme. Great concept no doubt, but FFS.. PRICE IT ACCORDINGLY!!!!
It is priced accordingly. I see peoples frustration in the fact that the car can whip your ass, but they are all fast cars, and exceptional cars. Be proud of what u purchased.

I believe you all got your expectations too high for the eights after the turbo was released, thus putting a bad light on the eight. Unfortunatly, it didn't help when other people tried to explain that the XR8 was 2 car legnths ahead of the 6T, when it was not.

Anyway, that was slightly off topic, All ford need to do is to increase the production line, which i think will happen sometime this year because the sales are so much better. As i said last time, it would be interesting to here Mr Flints comments to this thread.
 
#12 ·
XR6turbo said:
I believe you all got your expectations too high for the eights after the turbo was released, thus putting a bad light on the eight.
Not quite right sonny. As I've said before the pinnacle model in any manufacturers range either provides additional performance or fruit to justify the pricing premium - and in most instances it is performance that drives the hero vehicle image. It's supposed to then provide a flow on effect in adding street cred to the lesser models within the range. This is the reasoning behind Ford maintaining design DNA all the way from XT to GT.
What we have in the case of XR6T and (especially) XR8 is a substantial price difference that doesn't reflect their relative performance levels that is not compensated for by "fruit". The GT is marginally better positioned for fruit but delivers barely more performance (if any) for a substantial price premium. Doesn't matter which way you cut that cake - it's screwed.

All ford need to do is to increase the production line, which i think will happen sometime this year because the sales are so much better.
Oh that it was that simple. If you'd have been reading you'd have noted that the delays are not capacity related but rather other issues. Increasing capacity would only compound the problems without producing one more delivered vehicle.

Russ
 
#13 ·
Best reading I've heard on here for a long time.

Congratulations Russ on your bringing shortfalls to our attention. FPVs concerns should be broadened further than your highlights however. I have a GT-P on order. Ordered 3 March, delivery mid September. 6 1/2 months for a car! S**t it isn't a Ferrari or Lambo. Not even an Aston Martin. Some say its a taxi with a few extra bits! (after all, I'm sure it will start its initial build alongside what will be destined to be a taxi, base fleet Falcon or poverty pack discounted product. (prove me wrong, but 'start of life' is at pressing of panel, making of seat frames stage, and I'm sure the factory don't go screening raw parts for matching quality to end product).

I've mentioned dealers in previous threads. Yesterday my wife and I were in a dealership which is owned by the biggest group in NZ. (Colonial Motor Group). I asked a few questions about GT-P (the salesman was not aware I had one on order, but nor should he, because in this deal we were shopping for my wife, who may actually want an FPV, but maybe an HSV, to keep things in the family 'balanced'). The salesman was very rude and cocky, because in his opinion, (and he STATED the following) he didn't need to sell cars, people walked in the door and begged him for them and he decided who got them and who didn't, and basically he loved to play god. Orders were back up until this time next year. He rubbished Holden, rubbished the independant dealer (Metro Ford) in our city, and said Colonial was the FPV dealer in the region and we would never secure an FPV from Metro's, because Colonial would always make the FPV product unavailable to other dealers, thus forcing people into only buying from Colonial. In my opinion, this dealership (who is part of the Colonial group but not THE FPV dealership) is overstepping the mark in making such statements.

HSV have offered 6% off a Clubsport R8, and will talk more. I asked the salesman about this. He said Ford NZ will not offer discounts because it severely affects the future market for 'Premium' products, but then immediately offered 18,500 off a T3 TS50 with Brembo upgrade. (retail price $92,000, discounted price $$73,500). What does that say for the longevity of a 'Premium' product - they only came out in NZ end May 2002, and already they are discounting over 20% on a product they said would NEVER be discounted. Where does this leave the T# owners? Ford KNEW the T3 would be replaced in 2003, but over ordered the product in relation to the market. The same as they did with AUIII XR8's (in NZ they have flooded the market with brand new XR8's, and are offering 20% discount off AUIII XR8s - depreciation for existing owners is horrific). I will not ever buy another XR8 on that basis, and feel I am taking a risk in buying a GT-P vehicle. I have been told the GT-P will depreciate far less than an HSV and will always command a premium trade value.

My wife walked out of the showroom and I doubt if she'll ever go back. Result? LOST SALE!

FPV - get your product rolling, faster, but to a high standard please. Don't disappoint your loyal customers. Show them you can deliver quality and do it on time. My investment in my GT-P relies entirely on how you perform and how your front line representatives market and support your product. If I had not ordered your product and paid a $5000 non refundable deposit, after yesterdays experience, I would have walked away to HSV.

(some will gloat and say Ford product is better, but really the Holden / Ford race is like a 400 meter hurdle race - the sprinters get to the hurdles at slightly different times, but you can never really pick the winner until the finish line is imminent).

Incedently, this same dealership offered us BREMBO brakes as the standard premium brakes on an XR8 in feb this year. They also stated that the XR8 auto was delayed because it was made in America and delayed in shipping to Australia.

If FPV want success in marketing, they not only have to take note of the supply and initial issues, but also the marketing of their product at the retail end.
 
#15 ·
XR6turbo said:
It is priced accordingly. I see peoples frustration in the fact that the car can whip your ass, but they are all fast cars, and exceptional cars. Be proud of what u purchased.

I believe you all got your expectations too high for the eights after the turbo was released, thus putting a bad light on the eight. Unfortunatly, it didn't help when other people tried to explain that the XR8 was 2 car legnths ahead of the 6T, when it was not.

Either I have a very slow manual XR6T in my garage OR an exceptionly quick 290 Pursuit, parked beside it... Believe me... They is chalk & cheese! :1poke: Not knocking the "T"... But at this place in time the the Boss eats it... ( let's hope Ford continues to keep the pecking order as it should be?)..
BTW.. Top read & great to see the passion exuded in not only Russ's writing , But the replies, as well!... great stuff!
 
#16 ·
laminge said:
Hence it not us to overcome such failings, it soley rest on one mans shoulders to come clean and educate not only the public, but the dealer network as to why delivery of vehicles to consumers has staled!


Harsh! Maybe!
Worng Attitutde! Maybe
Will I continue to buy Fords in the future. YES!
THEN IT'S ABOUT TIME THAT SOMEONE STARTED EDUCATING(KICKING ARSES) AND YES i WILL STILL BUY FORD.
 
#17 ·
russellw said:
What we have in the case of XR6T and (especially) XR8 is a substantial price difference that doesn't reflect their relative performance levels that is not compensated for by "fruit". The GT is marginally better positioned for fruit but delivers barely more performance (if any) for a substantial price premium. Doesn't matter which way you cut that cake - it's screwed.

Russ [/B]
I assume from your previous post FPV have had problems obtaining XR specific bits which must mean they are selling very well. If Ford have screwed it, why are they in this position?
Arn't XR sales over double previous XR's?

Anyone have the breakdown of BA XR sales so far? it would be interesting to see if the XR8 in particular has suffered due to the XR6T.

Kieron
 
#18 ·
Good topic, and very valid concerns.
 
#19 ·
AUII XR8 said:


I've mentioned dealers in previous threads. Yesterday my wife and I were in a dealership which is owned by the biggest group in NZ. (Colonial Motor Group). I asked a few questions about GT-P (the salesman was not aware I had one on order, but nor should he, because in this deal we were shopping for my wife, who may actually want an FPV, but maybe an HSV, to keep things in the family 'balanced'). The salesman was very rude and cocky, because in his opinion, (and he STATED the following) he didn't need to sell cars, people walked in the door and begged him for them and he decided who got them and who didn't, and basically he loved to play god. Orders were back up until this time next year. He rubbished Holden, rubbished the independant dealer (Metro Ford) in our city, and said Colonial was the FPV dealer in the region and we would never secure an FPV from Metro's, because Colonial would always make the FPV product unavailable to other dealers, thus forcing people into only buying from Colonial. In my opinion, this dealership (who is part of the Colonial group but not THE FPV dealership) is overstepping the mark in making such statements.
Salespeople like these are exactly the people who should <b>not</b> be selling Ford product. :wank2:

A high calibre of sales representatives would go a long way to improving Ford Australia.
 
#20 ·
russellw said:
It is admirable that FPV are making an effort to ensure that the product is free from major bugs and I am happy about that but there is also such a thing as timeliness and communication and frankly on both points the score is a big fat zero. The dealer network is fed half baked information (mostly because they aren't trusted) and thus the customer is fed a combination of half truths and garbage that isn't terribly palatable. Heaven forbid (of course) that a manufacturer would publicly acknowledge problems until well after the fact (where they get referred to as "challenges") but it would be really nice for someone to start the trend. Dreaming again I know.
That is RIGHT ON THE MONEY mate. I'd be willing to accept supply delays, and write them off to insufficient or mistaken analysis in the product planning department if there was open and honest communication, but as you say, if the reasons for these delays are obfuscated with :bs: then there is every reason to throw throw a negative light on the issue.

Simply put - communication and honesty would go a LONG way to making the delays more pallatible.
 
#21 ·
I can see here that some people are unhappy about the current lack of product and associated parts for the FPV vehicles.

I think this is to be expected...it May the cars have only just started being delivered....of course there is going to be a rush to have the best Ozzie car going around.....HSV have been around for years....so everyone who really wanted one now has one....give it a year or two and the same will be true of the FPV cars.

I'll be ordering mine later towards the end of the year...i would hope by then the production runs will be pretty well sorted out......


Sorry to get off the subject......

As for that salesman you mentioned.....I think you should bring his comments to the attension of the dealer principle....he may provide him with some remeadial sale training.

My girlfriend and I had a similar problem with a salesperson ......we wanted to take an Explorer for a run...he suggested we make and appointment and come back during the week.....we made the right noises to the manager.....I'm not sure the sales person works there anymore.
 
#22 ·
russellw said:

1. The reality of the product positioning between Ford/FPV product lines has once again created a situation where the so called 'halo' vehicles do not represent the top of the performance pinnacle. Make all the excuses you like but the reality exists that the XR6T is capable of creaming not just its XR8 cousin but the entire FPV range. Good news for the turbo buyer and a disaster for the FPV one. I can already predict what this is going to do for the projected 3 year resales of the respective vehicles on a percentage basis and it isn't pretty - and off a much higher base too.
Well what can I say....Bing Go! Many have wondered why I have not made my purchase yet and Russ, you have nailed it right their.

I have been waiting for along time for the BOSS to come and was not prepared for the T6. I'm not speaking for other people, nor do I wish my comments to poorly reflect on those that have purchased a BOSS powered vehicle, however the T6 has delivered everything I hoped the BOSS would, from performance to balance.

Thou this should be a good thing, it has left me at a loss. IMO if you buy anything but a T6 if your in a Falcon performance market, it would just not make sense. This ultimately means I must ignore my common sense if I am the buy an XR8.

I am not suggesting that the XR8 is a poor car in any means, but for the extra money, fuel, insurance etc, etc.. I expect it to be simply better that the T6. As for the GT.....

You can call that silly. You can call that what ever you want, but I'm not alone here and I hope FORD/FPV are listening. Since I have been told that I would be waiting a month or 2 or 3 for delivery, I have decided to wait for early 2004 when I hope the Series 2 BOSS has found something more.

Cheers,
Colville
 
#23 ·
I ordered my GT-P last year and only got it last week but i will say this, i am very proud to own it and i really dont care if there is a XR6 Turbo that will beat me because i didnt buy the car just for the speed i bought i for the complete package. its a collectable, there are limited numbers and thats the way it should be. you get what you pay for. i was driving a XR6 turbo before i got the GT-P and yes its a good car but no way whilst my ass points to the ground will it give the satifaction the GT-P gives when driving it. People stop, look and listen when driving the GT-P but i didnt get that once whilst driving the XR6T for 3 months! The XR6T has its purpose and thats what its doing.From the magazines All HSV's except the GTS are slower than the SV8 it all comes down to the power to weight ratio.I know that people are pissed about the long wait i know i was but the same is for HSV if you ask for a coloured car that isnt already made. My cousin ordered a R8 Clubsport last September and was told that the wait was 3 months. His car was finished a little over the 3 months quoted time but didnt get the car for another 2 weeks after that because the transporting company that holden use are not the best in delivery times he was fuming but like FPV in order to get a car from either of their elite clubs you must wait. I think that in these times people are getting a little of the spoilt brat sindrome" i want it and i want it NOW" Just relax and anpreciate whats coming to you. I sold my other car as soon as i ordered my car and was driving a rusted out 85 camry with rego that ran out the week after taking delivery so you can understand that i to was dying for my ride and it finally came after ordering it on October 7th 2002, yes i changed my order during that time but the wait was still the same. I think that people are getting a little carried away with it all.
sorry, im finished with the soap box, next please

Elmer Fudd
 
#24 ·
BOSSGT said:
I think that in these times people are getting a little of the spoilt brat sindrome" i want it and i want it NOW"
Just to clarify for the benefit of Mr Fudd.

I'm not complaining about the wait as such but about the actual reasons behind those delays and the apparent lack of cohesion in the whole process.
It has nothing to do with spoiled brat syndrome - I'm happy to wait as long as it takes for the right reasons but not for the wrong ones. These are the wrong reasons as they indicate a lack of planning, insufficient testing and poor control over internal and external suppliers. If that makes you happy then enjoy the fools paradise.

Russ
 
#25 ·
Hey BOSSGT,

What you may not be taking into consideration here is everybody has different expectations and reasons why they will buy or not buy the BOSS cars. NONE of those are right or wrong and it is up to FPV to decide what they wish to priorities in order meet their objectives.

For some, the reason why they will not purchase the XR8 or GT is because the T6 is faster then so be it. If it is the waiting time is perceived as unacceptable for others then so be that too. Everyone has a right to make their purchasing decision based on what is important to them and I would hardly say in doing that, they should be considered a "spoilt brat" for being that way. God knows I have worked extremely hard in my life as well as many others to be in a position to purchase an Xr8 or GT etc in the first place.

I think one of the points of this topic is to highlight that although the XR8, GT and GT-P cars are very, very fine vehicles, and much better in most ways that their V8 predecessors, they have NOT met 'as yet' all the expectations of some of their intended market, weather that be in delivery times, marketing or performance.

I think it is great that this forum gives us, the customers the opportunity to provide feedback to Ford/FPV so they can take it onboard when making their future business and manufacturing decisions.
 
#26 ·
On the marketing side I must admit I am completely underwhelmed by the lack of advertising for the GT. The GT name is one of the most evocative in Australian motoring.

There is a rich vein of history just waiting to be tapped. Imagine an ad where you have a GT or GTHO tearing around Bathurst and it fades to a GT flying around a corner on the Great Ocean Rd.

Yet if you asked 50 randomly chosen people in the street if they knew whether the Monaro or GT were currently available I'm sure most would say Monaro and not even know the GT is back.

There is no doubt that technically the FPV product is right on the money, but the product scheduling and brand image need a bit of work.
 
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