Ford Forums banner

GTHO - What do YOU want?

11K views 98 replies 45 participants last post by  big_pete 
#1 ·
Well, if Ford really do read these forums, and seeing as everyone's saying it's too late to change the GT, now would be a good time to dream about what you want the GTHO to be.

Be careful, we're talking about a legend here. Try to keep it simple and realistic. (yeah, I want the bloody SHAKER but it ain't gonna happen, so please NO MORE SHAKER!!!)


Seeing as the original was pretty much a race car with a rego sticker, I want:
* Weight reduction - carbon fibre bonnets and interior, light race seats, less NHV padding, run flat tyres...
* BIG horsepower engine, definitely over 300kW (screw Holden's power truce, they have their HRT 427). Bottom end not as important as it's meant to be a race car, but it MUST have big torque, which is a Falcon trademark. High revving 5.4/4.6 (supercharged?)
* Bulletproof drivetrain that'll easily cope with more power (T56 gearbox?)
* Suspension tuned more towards handling than comfort, with very little safety understeer. (Adjustable shocks?)
* Reduced steering assist, to the point of being heavy at low speeds. The journos r saying the current steering is over assisted.
* Modern driver aids - trac control (different threshold), shift light, HUD, more readouts in the ICC (injector duty cycle, A/F mixture, throttle position, etc), oil pressure & voltage gauges
* "Power mode" that runs lean for more power during racing
* Good pedals for heel-toeing
* Price should b around $100k.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
hemmm, what do I want?

* Well, it has to be racebred, but be able to drive on the roads.
* 373KW (same specs as the GT40 - therefore supercharged)
* It has to be the fastest sedan in the world, or there really is no point reviving the GTHO, in my opinion
* air adjustable ride height (so that it actually CAN be used for racing, then all you have to do is raise it up to a legal height on the drive home)
* Light weight panels, and interior materials (racing seats, etc)
* 9inch Differential
* Only available in manual (the best available)
* 200 limited production
* best of the best really!

* in terms of looks..... It should look similiar to the v8 supercars (hence the link to racing), but with a new bonnet to actually fit the supercharger. (maybe even new front and rear bars? - Definately requiring flared out arches (ala M3) to make it look menacing)
*19 inch wheels (5spokes) - even bigger?
*only like 2 or 3 colours to choose from (red with black racing stripe, yellow with black racing stripe and mercury silver with black racing stripe)

There you have it!
Modern Day muscle!

ChuBBz
(ahh, one can dream can't they?)
 
#3 ·
In a Nut Shell................What ever holden has and add 10%

I do not want to be an also ran again.....Lets face it Ford has racing in its Blood. ie the GT40, Cobra, Cosworth, Ford owns Jaguar which also has a pretty good racing history.


Ford Oz has no reason not to be the best of the best in this country.
 
#4 ·
well this isnt real hard to answer. ford should build a modern day phase 4, the real weapon that never really saw the light of day. i dont want to see copy cat versions of what holden are doing, ford have proven in the seventies that they can build muscle cars. they dont need holden to hold their hand. it would have to be the most desired, most rewarding and the best falcon sedan ever to deserve this title. after all it has a huge reputation to live up to. but i think with how fpv are handling things at the moment the legend may just make another return
i think a great motor with good drivability, strong brakes ,really good chassis and a highly sort after interior with muscular exterior would be just fine. i dont think we need to have all that plastic hanging off it after all the phase 3 legend didnt need fancy body kits to make a statement. just a nice ride height and a great set of wheels makes any ride look the goods.
anyhow just my two cents worth :)
 
#5 ·
At a rough guess the development costs for such a vehicle as outlined in the initial posts - including emissions cerification and crash testing - would run into the $20-30m bracket. Even assuming that a number of the compnents were bought "off the shelf" and / or subcontracted to external suppliers.

To amortise those costs over say a 600 vehicle production run ( 3 years) would amount to $33,000 per unit (at the lower end of the estimate).

Based on the pricing for other similar components (albeit relatively higher volume) I would estimate the following (these are incremental costs over and above the standard components):

Carbon Fibre bonnet, rear spoiler, side mirrors and seats $ 12,000
Supercharging the 5.4 $ 12,000
Gearbox capable of 600 Nm $ 8,000
HUD - $anyone want to estimate?
Suspension Mods $ 4,000

If we add the developmental amortisation to the above we have a total of $ 70,000 in round figures on top of the donor car (I used the GT) for a total in the order of $140k. At the upper end of the development costs this would be closer to $165k and if the volumes were any leass than 200 a year then it just gets worse.

I'm not saying don't dream - but I thought the original posts asked for practical solutions and a price in the $100k bracket.
 
#7 ·
russellw said:
At a rough guess the development costs for such a vehicle as outlined in the initial posts - including emissions cerification and crash testing - would run into the $20-30m bracket. Even assuming that a number of the compnents were bought "off the shelf" and / or subcontracted to external suppliers.

To amortise those costs over say a 600 vehicle production run ( 3 years) would amount to $33,000 per unit (at the lower end of the estimate).

Based on the pricing for other similar components (albeit relatively higher volume) I would estimate the following (these are incremental costs over and above the standard components):

Carbon Fibre bonnet, rear spoiler, side mirrors and seats $ 12,000
Supercharging the 5.4 $ 12,000
Gearbox capable of 600 Nm $ 8,000
HUD - $anyone want to estimate?
Suspension Mods $ 4,000

If we add the developmental amortisation to the above we have a total of $ 70,000 in round figures on top of the donor car (I used the GT) for a total in the order of $140k. At the upper end of the development costs this would be closer to $165k and if the volumes were any leass than 200 a year then it just gets worse.

I'm not saying don't dream - but I thought the original posts asked for practical solutions and a price in the $100k bracket.
But what it will do to the rest of the falcon range will really be worth it (by that, I mean some boy-racer-wannabe will see the HO and want it. But can't afford it. So goes with an optioned XT). In GT-P it would kick arse 24/7 and we will finaly get to have a good :HAHA: at holden fans. (finaly).
Maybe I'm just wishing, trying to convince myself that it'll happen; or just :beerbottl

I want torque, and truckloads of it.
Less weight, IE, you can remove the sound system; and other unnecessary items.
A little bit more of the twisty stuff.
A 5/6 speed gear box, maybe sequential shift.

All that and more, and it'll be :hippy:
 
#8 ·
I rekon 351kw would be cool for marketing purposes but I rekon if they bring back the HO it has to be the fastest 4 door production car in the world with safety braking & handling to match a big ask i know but if it isn't call it something else.
It should look wild & aggressive but not tacky or stupidly over the top too.
 
#9 ·
Just aslong as its a car that you would feel honoured owning, and its made with racing in mind, high power and high quality would make me happy :)
 
#10 ·
I think maybe something along the lines of the 2000 Mustang Cobra R. I like the front and rear ad on spoilers they recieved looks wise. The front one was just a lip on the front of the existing Cobra spoiler with quick release fastners. The rear one was actually an inverted aerofoil section, not just a plank attached to to posts, and both looked tough on the car, as well as being functional.

Of course it would have to have a lot more grunt than the regular production GT / GT-P and bigger (wider please!!!! 8" wide wheels were a big deal on a factory BOSS 302 Mustang in 1969, so can we please have a set of WIDE wheels. BMW does it on the M cars).
 
#13 ·
It time to torpedo Holden.

Personally I don't think the GTHO has 'true' competition from the HRT 427 for one reason its two doors. The door door sports car market is way too competitive and it will be quickly forgotten. The GTHO has 'heritage' and if Ford uses it 'creatively' there is no reason why the Phase V GTHO won't be the most talked about car for all the good reasons. The GTHO has always been 4 door and hell it always should be. The GTHO's competitors are all European and in theory Ford can grab the crown of the fastest 4 door in the world if it has the will to do so.

Fonz's wishes (pleas) to Geoff and David-

1. The GTHO has always been race orientated keep it that way.
Bringing back the RPO option will make it even better. This car
should be built for one reason GT-P and the 24HR. It should
have a slightly better XR interior. The RPO option should be a
no holds barred racecar akin to the 427 Monaro and very
limited production 50 cars. Street GTHO should put out 420kw
therabouts- race trim cars put out 450kw. Much the same idea
Ducati does with its bikes the 996R(racebike) and the 996S
(streetbike).

Normally aspirated BB race motor. GTHOs have never been
supercharged and never should be. The 427 Monaro gives cues
of how the HO should be a BB monster motor. The only trap
here is emission draconian emission laws that may hold such
a Big Ford motor back. I would dream of a 429 Boss in the HO
but it would gladen the hearts of the enthusiasts out there
just the same if the 351 Boss (stroked 5.4?) were to make a
comeback. Those numbers mean so much but even idiots on
the street know what '351 is. Just put all the racing goodies
from supercars into the HO and it will quite easily make up the
76ci shortfall. Don't forget folks the shaker on top tradition
SAYS SO. If you don't put the superoo on the side it is
sacreligious to call her a HO. Take the Mustang Mach 1-
nice and not rice and I often say.

- a gearbox and diff to get ever inch of power out of the best so little power is lost to the drivetrain. ie 340/350+ rwkw.
- the car is more of a drivers car and as a result will not be easy
to drive for all the pleb sout there becuase of it particular-
sports driving design. Remember the bodykit should stand out
and show itself like no Falcon before agressive but not rice.
 
#14 ·
Re: It time to torpedo Holden.

The Fonz said:
Personally I don't think the GTHO has 'true' competition from the HRT 427 for one reason its two doors. The door door sports car market is way too competitive and it will be quickly forgotten. The GTHO has 'heritage' and if Ford uses it 'creatively' there is no reason why the Phase V GTHO won't be the most talked about car for all the good reasons. The GTHO has always been 4 door and hell it always should be. The GTHO's competitors are all European and in theory Ford can grab the crown of the fastest 4 door in the world if it has the will to do so.

Fonz's wishes (pleas) to Geoff and David-

1. The GTHO has always been race orientated keep it that way.
Bringing back the RPO option will make it even better. This car
should be built for one reason GT-P and the 24HR. It should
have a slightly better XR interior. The RPO option should be a
no holds barred racecar akin to the 427 Monaro and very
limited production 50 cars. Street GTHO should put out 420kw
therabouts- race trim cars put out 450kw. Much the same idea
Ducati does with its bikes the 996R(racebike) and the 996S
(streetbike).

Normally aspirated BB race motor. GTHOs have never been
supercharged and never should be. The 427 Monaro gives cues
of how the HO should be a BB monster motor. The only trap
here is emission draconian emission laws that may hold such
a Big Ford motor back. I would dream of a 429 Boss in the HO
but it would gladen the hearts of the enthusiasts out there
just the same if the 351 Boss (stroked 5.4?) were to make a
comeback. Those numbers mean so much but even idiots on
the street know what '351 is. Just put all the racing goodies
from supercars into the HO and it will quite easily make up the
76ci shortfall. Don't forget folks the shaker on top tradition
SAYS SO. If you don't put the superoo on the side it is
sacreligious to call her a HO. Take the Mustang Mach 1-
nice and not rice and I often say.

- a gearbox and diff to get ever inch of power out of the best so little power is lost to the drivetrain. ie 340/350+ rwkw.
- the car is more of a drivers car and as a result will not be easy
to drive for all the pleb sout there becuase of it particular-
sports driving design. Remember the bodykit should stand out
and show itself like no Falcon before agressive but not rice.

umm..the RPO option ( I assume RPO 83) was not offered on a GTHO .. it was offered after the demise of the Phase IV. If you reckon that a street car can put out 420Kw and still have a drivetrain warranty..... please reconsider!!!

Big blocks go well in straight lines.. but dont handle so well.. the 427 monaro AFAIK is a stroked and bored LS1 .. therefore a small block still..

I must reiterate... it is now the 21st century... the 1970s have been and gone . The new GTHO should represent this .. not be a misshapen monster ....
 
#15 ·
If we are to see a HO, I really hope it's not a rice boy toy. Notice the subtle styling on the HRT 427? No big rice kits, No crap Racing stripes, Nice subtle styling points like the small but effective rear spoiler.

GTHO will not get the fastest production 4 door title IMO. Nor should it try to get it. Give it balls, big wheels and the controlled aggression so plain to see on XR8 & GT.
Interior is another matter. It must have all the mod cons for it's asking price. The one real dissapointment for mine with the HRT 427. If it's to be road regestered then it must have a stereo system, nice supportive seats blah blah blah..
 
#16 ·
Re: It time to torpedo Holden.

The Fonz said:
Fonz's wishes (pleas) to Geoff and David-
I would dream of a 429 Boss in the HO
but it would gladen the hearts of the enthusiasts out there
just the same if the 351 Boss (stroked 5.4?) were to make a
comeback.
Repeat slowly after me ... we cannot stroke the 5.4 .


Don't forget folks the shaker on top tradition
SAYS SO. If you don't put the superoo on the side it is
sacreligious to call her a HO.
Thankfully the shaker and superoo sticker belong in a different era. Leave them there. They are as out of place in todays corporate car park as wire wheels and hula hoops. Let them be remembered for what they were.

Take the Mustang Mach 1-


.... and take it as far away from this country as you can. Just proves that the Americans haven't quite got it as purveyors of fine automotive design.

the car is more of a drivers car and as a result will not be easy to drive for all the plebs out there becuase of it particular-
sports driving design.
Ahhh - so while we are turning our backs on 30 years of advancement in automotive design we are also going to turn our backs on the advancements in driveability to keep "plebs" out of these cars. That is just about the most supercillious comment I've seen on this forum. Last time I looked most of the present crop of 300+ kw performance vehicles had finally achieved a state of user friendliness in their driving that made them available to a wider audience.

We are talking about a four door, 5 seat, family sedan here - not a 3" high sports car.

Russ
 
#17 ·
So you just want another slighty better motor and chassis than a GT, a logical evolution a GTHO. Id get more fun a Hayabusa anyday. Despite the fact I was not born in the 70s but the 90s the cars of today are too boring I thought the 427 Monaro was good thing infact and the GTHO has always been a monster so why change history? The dark side have scored a few points here I admit, history does repeat.
 
#18 ·
The Fonz said:
So you just want another slighty better motor and chassis than a GT, a logical evolution a GTHO.
In a nutshell... yes. Although the slightly better motor would be ~350kw - 600Nm

The Fonz said:
Id get more fun a Hayabusa anyday.
What the? :huh:

The Fonz said:
Despite the fact I was not born in the 70s but the 90s the cars of today are too boring I thought the 427 Monaro was good thing infact and the GTHO has always been a monster so why change history? The dark side have scored a few points here I admit, history does repeat.
Cars of today boring? You have got to be shitting me!!
Have you driven a VTII-VX SS/HSV? What about an FTE T series? Hell what about the SS/XR8? Have you driven an M3/M5? What about an AMG of any discription? Type-R Jaguar perhaps? RS Audi?
These cars are far from boring. In fact I believe we are seeing some of the greatest cars ever designed & engineered being brought to market as we speak.

Boring my arse.. :freak:
 
#19 ·
The Fonz said:
So you just want another slighty better motor and chassis than a GT, a logical evolution a GTHO. Id get more fun a Hayabusa anyday. Despite the fact I was not born in the 70s but the 90s the cars of today are too boring I thought the 427 Monaro was good thing infact and the GTHO has always been a monster so why change history? The dark side have scored a few points here I admit, history does repeat.
you assume a lot... I never said that I want a slightly better motor and chassis.. In a nutshell.. I said that reality is that all the crap that is being posted by various people isnt going to happen ... The last GTHO was the XY (well..the last one that was 'officially' sold) 30 years ago. It was the fastest 4 door in the world at that time ... but guess what... a VT series 2 exec LS1 will keep up with it in acceleration ..and maybe even beat it top speed. No one calls the exec a monster!!! It's a period thing... it was a monster in it's time.. but yet agin .. it's time has passed.

Buy your hayabusa... enjoy it.. because I really doublt the GTHO will run about with 420Kw... unless it comes with an unlimited lifetime supply of clutches..gearboxes..and diffs. The 427 monaro as it is is not registerable..if it does get to the street it will be in a somewhat different form....
 
#21 ·
I seem to converse very well for 12 years of age Russel realise that some folks may have a difference of opinion here. Some of us 'dinosaur' people hardly have a say as they get abused the crap out of and in general make them think they've been railroaded in a particular idea without debate.

My dad used to drive me around when he I was a kid in a tail sliding hard to control barrel of fun XW GT. Despite all the time gone by the GTs of those era are still remembered (and worth more than current GTs) and one hopes the GTs of this new era will as well. I doubt all the cars you mention about will be running around in 20 years time let alone be remembered with any fondness bar a few.

Keep the plebs out of cars and keep them sporty and don't dumb
it out and keep the car 'fun'. Of my little time with my XE 351 I loved every second of it. Yes call me uneducated, stupid and whatnot but some of us on the forums here do like Fords old beasts. The only modern Ford car I've been in and was impressed by was a EBII XR6. I have been in a t3 but this is the sort of idea which now makes me think Ford is on the right path as well.

I hav'nt driven all those technogagets you have mentioned above (apart from a VY SS and a BMW 5 series 6 cylinder 94 model) nice cars all the same not my forte. I have been in a many a 351 X serie,s Charger/s, XC Cobra and a 67 Fastback with a 351 in it. Sure they won't handle like your cars mentioned above but thats just me. Im a luddite I love modern-retro like the 427 Monaro and the Dodge Viper, king of the gas bowser. I was hoping the GT would be a sports car not a sports saloon as you have been mentioning. Have you riden a Suzuki Hayabusa 1300. Go to Frasers or wherever and ride one. Nearest thing to a aircraft no new car for me I want one of those. I understand your like of the modern bells and whistles V8 grand tourers but my love is the dinosaur gas guzzling arm wrenching reto rockets. Still we hav'nt seen a new GT hit 12's many a old dinosaur out there can do it and much less as well.
 
#22 ·
So I wonder if an Aston Martin DB7GT motor would fit in a BA shell???

If so, then I guess Ford really could build the fastest four door in the world again!

I'd love to see the GT (not GT-P) with the DB7GT motor and TR56 6-speed, bigger brakes and adjustable Koni struts and sway bars - I don't think you'd need much else for a road/track machine.
 
#23 ·
GTHO eh..

The only retro aspect of its design should be the GT badge (as seen on GT and GT-P).

The XY GTHO set new design trends - the BA GTHO should do the same. Take the existing GT, and make it slightly more overt.

As for power - well I'm no engineer, I'm not sure how much refined horsepower you can extract from the 5.4 . Anywhere in the vicinity of 330-340 kw would be bonza cobber.

Heavy duty premium brakes a certainty. Significant use of carbon fibre? I'd assume that would bump costs up a bit too high

Ghia or XR based? XR based, with a luxury option. Not necessarily a luxury model ie GTHO-P, but just a luxury option for those who, for example, actually want to listen to something besides the engine.

Then discard all that, chop the roof off, forget doors, give her carbon brakes, 7-speed semi-auto, 3 litre 850 hp v10 capable of revving to 18000rpm, full aero-dynamically tuned carbon fibre body (incl adjustable rear / front wing), single seat, weight of 600 kg including driver, paint em all red and put ferrari badges on them. Serious bragging rights...:evil: ...Ahem.
 
#24 ·
Carbon Fibre bonnet, rear spoiler, side mirrors and seats $ 12,000
Supercharging the 5.4 $ 12,000
Gearbox capable of 600 Nm $ 8,000
HUD - $anyone want to estimate?
Suspension Mods $ 4,000

If we add the developmental amortisation to the above we have a total of $ 70,000 in round figures on top of the donor car (I used the GT) for a total in the order of $140k. At the upper end of the development costs this would be closer to $165k and if the volumes were any leass than 200 a year then it just gets worse.
There already exists many supercharged modular Ford V8 applications, so maybe the 12k figure is a bit high. Supercharging is also a good idea because it's a really easy way to up the power for say a Nations Cup car.
Don't forget the new gearbox replaces the cost of the current gearbox, I suggested the T56, which Holden uses in the SS, which can take a lot.
As for a cheap HUD, look at the S13 Silvias, they have them and u can pick one of them up for under 10k.
I don't know about suspension costs, but I assume they just have to be a differnt setting to the GT ones, not necessarily a lot more expensive (come on, a sway bar is a bar, a spring is a spring). Just gotta get Bowie back in to choose which ones.
The proposed ICC displays only display information that the ECU has anyway, just need a software engineer to reprogram the ECU to do it. You can get them from around $60 an hour.
Carbon fibre could be a little expensive, don't know much about it so I'll take your word on that one. Sparco makes some good seats that go into stuff like WRX's for decent prices.

So we got a GT for 70k, we want the car to cost 100k, so we got 30k to play with. I reckon might be possible, but not easy. But then I hope noone at Ford would think making a new GTHO would be easy.

A word on how much of the past the GTHO should have. I think we should revive the spirit, the engineering goal of the original car, which was to make car that can drive your family to the picnic in one day and win Bathurst in the next. The original GTHO did not have to have 351ci, 351kW, shaker, black stripes, or even a V8, it just turned out that way (well, except for 351kW). As long as the car turns out bloody awesome, I don't think we should put any other restrictions on Ford.
 
#26 ·
Just did some research...

CSV VELOCE is officially "Australia's Fastest Production Car” with 330kw. [it says this on the website, but hemm actually wouldnt the 4.o Bullett V8 be?]
and on their website (www.csvaustralia.com) is says...
______________________________________________
CSV VY News Release

- All CSV cars will now be 300KW standard throughout the new range
- The CSV 7.0ltr engine is almost ready for release. Drive by wire systems and other hi-tech items are standard options.
- The CSV Veloce will no longer be 330KW; it will be closer to 360KW (Maybe more?)
- Holden owners will be able to have their cars upgraded at the CSV factory (e.g. Holden 235KW upgraded to 300KW)

______________________________________________

360kw for the VY VELOCE?
I'll be extremely disappointed with the GTHO if it is not at least Australia's fastest sedan.
More of a reason to use the GT40 donk. (i.e 5.4 supercharged = 373kw)

ChuBBz
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top