Firstly a reminder that we don't need to be shouted at with capitalisation to make your point.
Secondly I am just going to let the insults slide - they are unworthy of comment.
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Originally posted by XF 5.0 S
LOOK AT THE MARKET AND ITS GENERAL TRENDS - HAVE HOLDEN SALES SLID SINCE THE INTRODUCTION OF THE BIGGER GEN 3? WHY THEN THE NEED FOR TICKFORD TO PRDUCE A 347 VARIANT? WHY IS FORD INTRODUCING A 5.4 VARIANT WITH THE SOLE INTENTION OF BYPASSING HOLDEN? YOU MAY THINK PEOPLE ARE PAST THIS "MINES BIGGER THAN YOURS" THING - BUT THE MARKET IS DICTATING OTHERWISE - OPEN YOUR EYES.
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I don't quite see the relevance of sales performance unless you are suggesting that the Holden sales are directly related to their provision of larger capacity engines - and this is hardly supported by the facts is it? The reality is that the smaller and less powerful V6 Holden outsells the Ford equivalent by nearly 3 to 1. I will acknowledge that it is a factor in the relatively lower volume performance market however balalnced performance is of far greater importance than raw horsepower numbers. The market is presently dictating a preference for Holden product for a much greater number of reasons than cubic capacity - market cachet, racing success and styling amongst them.
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I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THEN THE T3 WAS THE AWNSER FOR YOU. I AM NOT QUESTIONING YOUR LOYALTY FOR THE BLUE OVAL, ..... FOR YOUR BENEFIT AGAIN, THE POINT I WAS AND AM MAKING IS THAT FORD NEED TO BE A STEP AHEAD, AND IT MAY TAKE THE V10 TO DO THAT. THE T3 IS ESSENTIALLY EQUALLING THE OPPOSITION, I SAY (AS OTHERS IN THIS VERY FORUM AGREE) THAT WE HAVE TO BE AHEAD OF THE GAME, AS HSV HAVE BEEN SINCE 1988. IN 1971 FORD HAD NO PEER....
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As it happens my present T Series will do nicely until the GT comes along thanks. Furthermore it is my opinion that inflammatory comments such as "If you like to pander to HSV" and "Its ok for Folden , but not Ford, Right?" are questioning my loyalty but I will accept that your intentions were just poorly expressed.
As for needing to be "ahead" of the game - I would have my doubts that this is even necessary. The T Series cars (and XR's) have always been acknowledged as the sweeter handling, better equipped and built cars but criticised for being poorly styled (sometimes) and lacking in equivalert power. If these last two points are addressed in BA then that should provide a more than level playing field. Your final point is also historically inaccurate. To suggest that Ford had no peer in the era of the XY GTHO is to ignore the very real presence of the GTS350 Monaro and the various E38/E49 Chargers - both of which were no performance slouch and which sold in good numbers. Indeed the entire V8 Monaro range outsold the equivalent GT and HO product of the time.
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OH, AND THANKS FOR THE SNIDE REMARK ABOUT MY XF RUSS, WHICH HAPPENS TO HOLD PERSONAL FAMILY SENTIMENTAL VALUE FOR ME. FOR YOUR INFORMATION, YOU DO NOT KNOW ME OR MY FINANCIAL POSITION, AS I DO NOT ASSUME YOURS, NOR COULD I BE BOTHERED, SO PERSONAL INSULTS ARE UNWARRANTED IN THIS DISCUSSION. LETS JUST SAY THAT IF A V10 GTHO WAS RELEASED TOMMOROW, I COULD EASILY OBTAIN ONE, AND MOST DEFINANTLY WOULD.
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I am not quite sure how "stick to the XF" is a snide remark - having owned a couple they are a very nice vehicle and far superior in design and performance to their Holden equivalents of the day. Which makes the rest of the quote a bit irrelevant - as if I could give a rats about your financial position - perhaps it may be a good idea to take things a little less seriously.
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... SO I WAS VERY MUCH ALIVE, AND OUT OF NAPPIES, RUSS.(ANOTHER ASSUMPTIVE INSULT - WOW RUSS, SARCASM IS THE LOWEST FORM OF WIT)
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Once again I struggle to understand how questioning whether you were alive during the original supercar scare is either presumptive or insulting - I asked the question because it appeared that you did not grasp the political and social climate at the time ...
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THE SUPERCAR SCARE WAS SPAWNED FROM AN ARTICLE IN THE SUN & SMH BY EVAN GREEN, AND A PARASITIC OPPORTUNISTIC POLITICIAN BY THE NAME OF MORRIS.THIS WAS IN THE DAYS OF NO SEAT BELTS, NO AIR BAGS, NO STABILITY CONTROL, NO TRACTION CONTROL, NO SIDE INTRUSION, NO ANTI DRINK DRIVING, NO ABS, NO SRS.
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... in the bare facts here you are correct but this also followed the Ralph Nader "unsafe at any speed" and followed on from a couple of headline making accidents involving "high performance" vehicles. I. for one, would not trust the present socio-political climate to not reproduce a similar scenario - or believe that there are not opportunistic politicians out there today. Indeed it is more likely in the present climate that this scenario will reappear. It would be easy to paint a picture where this could happen - indulge me for a moment and let me set the background:
1. We have a society now that is primarily focused on Political correctness.
2. We have (as performance enthusiasts) continued to accepted ill formed logic to justify the introduction of speed cameras and other "deterrents".
3. It is difficult in this climate to justify vehicles capable of 2.5 times the speed limit.
4. It is even more difficult to justify vehicles that consume scarce energy resources at the rate these vehicles do.
Into this mix we only need to add a bad accident involving a high performance vehicle and an opportunistic politician and we have the perfect breeding ground for political intervention. Indeed your next point about the relatively small numbers of these vehicles becomes equally irrelevant - the Supercars of the early 70's didn;t sell in big numbers either.
Furthermore all of the additional safety items mentioned above only help if the argument against such vehicles is based on LOGIC - and the argument in 1972 certainly was far more emotive than logical. I see no reason to assume it wouldn't be the same this time.
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AND THERE ARE SMALLER ENGINES MAKING MORE POWER THAN A V10 WOULD - WHATS THE POINT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE?YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE "LIMIT" (WHICH YOU SEEM TO THINK IS FINITE) IS DICTATED BY OUTPUT AND NOT CAPACITY, SO WHY HASN'T THE VIPER OR SIMILAR CARS BEEN BANNED FROM ENTERING THE COUNTRY?
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I haven't quantified the limit - I don't know where it is - I can just see the climate being right for it to happen again. Whether it is with this next generation of cars or the one after I couldn't say.
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THE KEY TO EFFECTIVE MARKETING IS KNOWING YOUR COMPETITORS. IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR FORD TO REACT TO COMPETITORS & THE MARKET - THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE POST (IF YOU BOTHERED READING IT CORRECTLY) IS WHETHER FORD SHOULD REACT TO HOLDEN BY INTRODUCING A V10 IN THE HO TOP LINE - SO WE ARE COMPARING HOLDEN TO FORD.
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In actual fact the key to effective market is to know your audience - not your competitors. A knowledge of your competitors products assists in the product planning stage. I did read the post correctly (thanks) and I therefore attempted to point out the absence of need to travel down this particular path.
Anyway - as stated above you can keep the rest of the cheap shots and I sincerely hope they made you feel better - I have far more things to do with my time than rebut personal insults.
I will, however, continue to rebut and debate any commentary that I do not agree with or which appears to be lacking in substance. You are more than welcome to continue debating the actual issues in this Forum and I will continue to listen to (and weigh) the merits of your point of view.
It might be useful for you to remember that there is nothing aimed at you personally in my posts - I will certainly ridicule a situation / opinion that I believe has earnt it but I try to do so with a modicum of humour and good naturedness and (foolishly) expect the same in return.
Regards
Russ
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