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weight loss for FPV GT - why not use aluminuim?

4K views 33 replies 18 participants last post by  IPhido 
#1 ·
If the new GT is set back so much by the weight issue, why not use aluminuim instead of a steel. That should shave off a couple of hundred kgs. I've heard that Jaguar are doing that. So shave off 200kgs, make the Boss 290, the Boss 390 and boost torque up to 600+nm. Then you've got the GT-HO. Worlds fastest 4 dr sedan.
 
#4 ·
$$$$$$$$$$$$ that'll stop that !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#7 ·
well, in reality this isn't far from the truth. There are rumours floating that Ford are using aluminium on some area's (ie: Boot, Doors and bonnet). As i said rumours, but if this does happen, ford could lose around 100kg off the falcon. Combine this with better gearing, and the cars would have better performance without the need to increase the power.
 
#8 ·
Some people (like me) believe that you get a better engine if its a cast iron block.

Give the aluminium to Honda and JAGs and leave steel cars to FPV. If I wanted a lighter car, I would have bought a motor bike!

Cars are meant for strength. Lets face it, there is no legal reason for drag racing these beasts to and from work. A couple of hundred kilo is not going to make much difference in day to day driving.

Think of the arguement why so many people buy 4 wheel drives and never take them off road - safety man!! (Mind you, a 4 wheel drive has the wrong brakes, tyres and suspension and most 4 wheel drive owners drive them like ferraris in peak hour traffic!!).
 
#9 ·
bossxr8 said:
Ease of repair is also an issue. How many smash repair joints know how to fix aluminium bodied cars.
No crash repair joints know how to fix aluminium panels because they don't have a need to know. If a mainstream brand such as Ford started using aluminium panels then they would learn how to do it. People only learn how to do things if there is a demand for the knowledge to be used to make money. Simple.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Re: Re: weight loss for FPV GT - why not use aluminuim?

bsmyth said:
Good idea but an aluminum bodied car is very expensive to engineer and manufacture hence why a jag costs what it does.

Aluminium components could also be used but they wouldnt save this much weight, but also arent as strong as steel components.
Aluminium components can be made to almost an equivalent strength to mild steel but are more brittle than mild steel for the same strength.

Perhaps a combination not suitable for the automotive industry. There are some cost savings to be made in that to press aluminium panels requires less pressure from hydraulics? minimal at best though.

BTW arent Range Rover panels made from aluminium??? or have i been misinformed.
 
#11 ·
The weight Issue of the Falcon is somewhat of a problem. Especially when one considers the HSV being able to match the Falcon with less power. It's a Falcon, it's supposed to fly.

Aluminium if used on the front fenders and bonnet, would simply be bolt on items. Would also reduce the wieght over the front wheels - improving weight distribution. Side effect, handling is better.

While your at it, do the boot lid too.

Street cred of the GT's (and hopefully the GTHO) is increased. Why? Less mainstream Falcon - more in your face street racer, that is meant to go hard.

Consider alloy components (maybe high magneisum content stuff) for suspension links. Less unsprung weight.

Suddenly 290 Kw and 500 + Nm is really kick ass.

Just my 2 C worth
 
#12 ·
This weeks press has roadtests of the new XJ V8 Jag and it weighs the same as a Commodore, yet has every option including DVD screens in the front seat headrests etc...weight savings using aluminium are enormous but so are the manufacturing/development costs...we could never afford to buy a Falcon.
 
#13 ·
Re: Re: weight loss for FPV GT - why not use aluminuim?

Curls said:
This weeks press has roadtests of the new XJ V8 Jag and it weighs the same as a Commodore, yet has every option including DVD screens in the front seat headrests etc...weight savings using aluminium are enormous but so are the manufacturing/development costs...we could never afford to buy a Falcon.
Jags cost so much because of the luxury car tax, luxury car import tariff and cause the have good build quality, how much as an XJ Jag in england. I bet it would be a lot cheaper than what we pay
 
#15 ·
if there was an additional cost, it would pay for itself within a few years. why,because items such as tyres wouldn't wear out as fast which would save quite a bit on new tyres. get my drift?

cheers
marcos04
 
#20 ·
Re: Re: weight loss for FPV GT - why not use aluminuim?

eightoftwelve said:
Some people (like me) believe that you get a better engine if its a cast iron block.

Give the aluminium to Honda and JAGs and leave steel cars to FPV. If I wanted a lighter car, I would have bought a motor bike!

Cars are meant for strength. Lets face it, there is no legal reason for drag racing these beasts to and from work. A couple of hundred kilo is not going to make much difference in day to day driving.

Think of the arguement why so many people buy 4 wheel drives and never take them off road - safety man!! (Mind you, a 4 wheel drive has the wrong brakes, tyres and suspension and most 4 wheel drive owners drive them like ferraris in peak hour traffic!!).

A couple of hundred kilos can make a bit of a difference in fuel economy, and drag racer or not, that is a worthwhile thing to pursue.
I dont think people buy 4wd's for saftey much as much as other reasons if they are well informed. I think they are brought probably mainly for the image, and maybe a small bit of practicality eg if you tow a boat or live in the country where traction can be non existant sometimes. 4wd, when in the saloons such as subarus etc can have an positive influence on saftey, eg, maintaining control in sticky situations, but when you have 4wd in the likes of a nissan patrol or large 4wd, it is almost a hindrance in terms of saftey cos of several reason, the least of which are all the extra weight that has to be shifted rapidly in emergencies etc.
If you want saftey, the fundamental design is more important that whether the vehicle has 4wd or not. Having 4wd in a nissan patrol or toyota land cruiser wont help you in terms of saftey when the steering column torpedo's through your skull and out the other side, aka the Holden hk kingswood of thankfully yesteryear.
 
#21 ·
Re: Re: weight loss for FPV GT - why not use aluminuim?

eightoftwelve said:
Some people (like me) believe that you get a better engine if its a cast iron block.

Give the aluminium to Honda and JAGs and leave steel cars to FPV. If I wanted a lighter car, I would have bought a motor bike!

Cars are meant for strength. Lets face it, there is no legal reason for drag racing these beasts to and from work. A couple of hundred kilo is not going to make much difference in day to day driving.

Think of the arguement why so many people buy 4 wheel drives and never take them off road - safety man!! (Mind you, a 4 wheel drive has the wrong brakes, tyres and suspension and most 4 wheel drive owners drive them like ferraris in peak hour traffic!!).

A couple of hundred kilos can make a bit of a difference in fuel economy, and drag racer or not, that is a worthwhile thing to pursue.
I dont think people buy 4wd's for saftey much as much as other reasons if they are well informed. I think they are brought probably mainly for the image, and maybe a small bit of practicality eg if you tow a boat or live in the country where traction can be non existant sometimes. 4wd, when in the saloons such as subarus etc can have an positive influence on saftey, eg, maintaining control in sticky situations, but when you have 4wd in the likes of a nissan patrol or large 4wd, it is almost a hindrance in terms of saftey cos of several reason, the least of which are all the extra weight that has to be shifted rapidly in emergencies etc.
If you want saftey, the fundamental design is more important that whether the vehicle has 4wd or not. Having 4wd in a nissan patrol or toyota land cruiser wont help you in terms of saftey when the steering column torpedo's through your skull and out the other side, aka the Holden hk kingswood of thankfully yesteryear.

If you want strength and light weight, go magnesium.
Also, some aluminuims might not be as stong as steel, but it absorbs energy better, and thererfore can be of more use than the more rigid steell materials in an accident..
 
#22 ·
Re: Re: Re: weight loss for FPV GT - why not use aluminuim?

ricecooker said:
If you want strength and light weight, go magnesium.
Yep, use magnesium! Why not kill your whole family (and half the universe including the people trying to save you) in a single accident. Fine by me!!

Ever seen magnesium burn? Or don't you believe that fires can happen in accidents?
 
#23 ·
pointman_4000 said:
Aluminium costs 3 times more to make than steel.

Do you really want a $150,000 Falcon?
You seem to forget, ford don't need to make an ALL aluminium car, it just needs to be semi. As i said before, they are looking at using aluminium in some area's. By making the doors and bonnet and boot aluminium, they will save weight and not make the price that much more. Ford are smart, and i am sure they are not going to do anything that will increase the price too much, or make anything thats not as safe as the current BA.

THAT WAS MY 600 post WOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
 
#24 ·
Re: Re: Re: Re: weight loss for FPV GT - why not use aluminuim?

eightoftwelve said:
Yep, use magnesium! Why not kill your whle family (and half the universe including the people trying to save you) in a single accident. Fine by me!!

Ever seen magnesium burn? Or don't you believe that fires can happen in accidents?
Well if you want to use pure magnesium sure, you can make magnesium burn but you would either dope it with another metal which could make it stronger and just as immune to fire as iron. I didnt mean use the same magnesium as your saw burning in your school science classes you plonker. Magnesium as as technology is established in the Auto industry, esp racing.

How do you think they can make magnesium engines if it burns at on contact with a stray ciggy butt?

Materials science has come a long way in the past few years.

If you wanted to be pedantic about it, put a match to an iron pot scouring pad, and tell me how flammable iron is... It will burn like it,s candyfloss, yet i dont hear people campaigning to stop building engines out of iron because of the fire risk..
 
#25 ·
I LIKE my 1800++kgs of tin surrounding me when I am driving. OK so I am a tiny bit slower over the 400m, so what. If and when I have an OOPS in traffic I think I will be very happy with my big tin coocoon.
I have 16,500km on the beast now, of that about 2.8km (7x400m) has been spent on a drag strip and 20-30km (The FPV day) has been spent on a race track.
The rest of the time I am playing on the road with large numbers of others cars some of which are being controlled, and I use this term loosely, by people who should not be there.

It can be a dangerous place.

The best way to save weight is to remove all the useless heavy things like airbags, big brakes, door armour, traction system, ABS, steel bonnet and boot, reinforced chassis etc.

GO FAST but GO SPLAT.
I don't like SPLAT.

At the recent FPV day I was shown by professionals how to better control my car. One thing that was very obvious was that there were some there (maybe me included) who were only just capable of driving the car and one or two who maybe should have bought a Fairlane instead.

The quickest way to ensure that there is another 'Supercar' scare is to have a couple of nice new FPVs or even HSVs go splat killing all occupants. The media would go bezerk and some political nobody would make it their mission to save us from these dangerous semi automatic (sic) high powered weapons that any P plater with $80k can buy and tear up the neighborhood killing little old ladys left right and centre.

If you want to drive an absolute blatmobile/rollerskate buy a GTR Skyline or some other 'fast and furious' permutation of a rice custard.

I bought a Grand Tourer-Premium because that is what I wanted.

2.2c (GST Inclusive)
 
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