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Whining Diff Again

6K views 41 replies 23 participants last post by  Rodderz 
#1 ·
After the long drive from Port Arlington to Heathcote and back to Melbourne, and the FPV drive day i have noticed my diff is whining again !
It was in for its 15,000k service today and the service advisor took it for a spin and confirmed my suspicions.
The original diff whined from day one, this replacement has done about 7,000 k's and has only started to whine in the last week or so.
Why in this day and age with all the technology we have, they cant manufacture quality components ?
I have a pretty good ear for mechanical problems as i am a qualified mechanic, but been out of the game for over 12 years.
How many unsuspecting people are driving their vehicles around with noisey diffs etc... and dont realise it ?
A new diff is on order and will be tested and delivered after christmas, the other replacement took over 5 months to arrive !
All i expect is to have a car that can cruise along at 100k's with out a noise like a mosquito in my ear. Dana must get their act together, they obviously cant build diffs with the correct tolerances, how hard can it be ?
 
#2 ·
cams290 said:
After the long drive from Port Arlington to Heathcote and back to Melbourne, and the FPV drive day i have noticed my diff is whining again !
It was in for its 15,000k service today and the service advisor took it for a spin and confirmed my suspicions.
The original diff whined from day one, this replacement has done about 7,000 k's and has only started to whine in the last week or so.
Why in this day and age with all the technology we have, they cant manufacture quality components ?
I have a pretty good ear for mechanical problems as i am a qualified mechanic, but been out of the game for over 12 years.
How many unsuspecting people are driving their vehicles around with noisey diffs etc... and dont realise it ?
A new diff is on order and will be tested and delivered after christmas, the other replacement took over 5 months to arrive !
All i expect is to have a car that can cruise along at 100k's with out a noise like a mosquito in my ear. Dana must get their act together, they obviously cant build diffs with the correct tolerances, how hard can it be ?
Well I am afraid that it's a cancer mate - the no one gives a sh*t about doing the job right cancer.

I worked as a quality controller in a vehicle part manufacturing plant (company's name withheld) and trust me on this but I was not allowed to QC anything so as not to interfere with production.

They did not give a sh*t if it was junk as long as they made their quota of junk for the day.

I quit, it's not how I do things.

Now you know why.
 
#4 ·
Cam, if you are thinking of having a ratio change try Northern diffs and gears they done a super job on mine..Bill realy knows his diffs....tell him i send you, then you will pay double ..lol..
 
#5 ·
cams290 said:
Dana must get their act together, they obviously cant build diffs with the correct tolerances, how hard can it be ?
Unfortunately it's company's like Dana that is letting down Ford with the problem components.
I dont know what Ford can do- find another supplier but where.
Cheers John
 
#6 ·
cams290 said:
After the long drive from Port Arlington to Heathcote and back to Melbourne, and the FPV drive day i have noticed my diff is whining again !
It was in for its 15,000k service today and the service advisor took it for a spin and confirmed my suspicions.
The original diff whined from day one, this replacement has done about 7,000 k's and has only started to whine in the last week or so.
Why in this day and age with all the technology we have, they cant manufacture quality components ?
I have a pretty good ear for mechanical problems as i am a qualified mechanic, but been out of the game for over 12 years.
How many unsuspecting people are driving their vehicles around with noisey diffs etc... and dont realise it ?
A new diff is on order and will be tested and delivered after christmas, the other replacement took over 5 months to arrive !
All i expect is to have a car that can cruise along at 100k's with out a noise like a mosquito in my ear. Dana must get their act together, they obviously cant build diffs with the correct tolerances, how hard can it be ?

Greetings Cam,

Firstly, congrats on your debut 14.14. Great debut pass in an auto pursuit.

The problem with the diffs is at Dana's end, and in my opinion is a pinion pre-load issue.

People who have tried to do their own diffs over the years have noted that its not as simple as bolting in a set of gears. The pinion depth must be set correctly to ensure a proper acel-decal operating pattern for quietness and long crownwheel and pinion life.

When the pinion is installed, I have noted that the acel/decel pattern Dana adhere to seems to be within spec, however the pinion does not have enough pre-load. The result is a quiet diff until the pinion bearing wears in, and becomes slack, allowing the pinion to move around more freely.

THIS IS THE NOISE YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT.

The fix is to re-set the pinion, but to a higher (closer to crownwheel) location, pre load it to a higher tension. A secondary problem is created here, but we can achieve the right backlash with careful shim selection, providing a more stable envirionment.

Any BA Dana diff we have inspected has had "loose" pinion pre-load. Its a simple fix, and relatively inexpensive one (unless he is driving a phantom ute, no discounts for him lol)

My personal car has travelled 8500 klms, and is on its 3rd diff. I have just informed my dealer that I will be doing this one myself. (maybe a ratio change). In my opinion, the "production line" style of building these diffs is the problem, with each set of bearings and gears slightly different in manufacture tolerance, so they each need their own amount of attention in setting up, some more than others

Anyone who needs help in this area, we will only be too glad to help. The price of genuine 4.11 and 3.7 gears has fallen dramatically, so PM me if you need help in this area. If you call in, just mention your forums name for a tea/coffee and the cheapest and best diff in melbourne, over 30 years experience.

Best Regards,

Chris
on behalf of Northern Differentials.
 
#7 ·
Morning guys!

I have not experienced this problem with my GTP yet, but from what Chris of Northern Differentials is saying it seems it is only a matter of time/mileage and can be fixed without changing the diff. I work overseas and my car is not driven very often as it is stored in Sydney. So my question is can anyone recommend a similar workshop in Sydney that can perform the fix? Thanks Jim Young
 
#8 ·
Jim Young said:
Morning guys!

I have not experienced this problem with my GTP yet, but from what Chris of Northern Differentials is saying it seems it is only a matter of time/mileage and can be fixed without changing the diff. I work overseas and my car is not driven very often as it is stored in Sydney. So my question is can anyone recommend a similar workshop in Sydney that can perform the fix? Thanks Jim Young
There is a good chance that you will Jim, I had 2 fitted to my BA Turbo, the GTs whines and rumbles and I expect the Typhoon to do exactly the same. This time I'm going to take Chris's advice and just take it to a diff joint. It's not worth the drama of waiting 6 weeks or more then losing the car for 2-3 days and having the noises reappear again 3-6000 klm later :AAHHH:
Still everything else about the cars is 10+ in my book :wnc:
 
#9 ·
Bluepower said:
Greetings Cam,

Firstly, congrats on your debut 14.14. Great debut pass in an auto pursuit.

The problem with the diffs is at Dana's end, and in my opinion is a pinion pre-load issue.

People who have tried to do their own diffs over the years have noted that its not as simple as bolting in a set of gears. The pinion depth must be set correctly to ensure a proper acel-decal operating pattern for quietness and long crownwheel and pinion life.

When the pinion is installed, I have noted that the acel/decel pattern Dana adhere to seems to be within spec, however the pinion does not have enough pre-load. The result is a quiet diff until the pinion bearing wears in, and becomes slack, allowing the pinion to move around more freely.

THIS IS THE NOISE YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT.

The fix is to re-set the pinion, but to a higher (closer to crownwheel) location, pre load it to a higher tension. A secondary problem is created here, but we can achieve the right backlash with careful shim selection, providing a more stable envirionment.

Any BA Dana diff we have inspected has had "loose" pinion pre-load. Its a simple fix, and relatively inexpensive one (unless he is driving a phantom ute, no discounts for him lol)

My personal car has travelled 8500 klms, and is on its 3rd diff. I have just informed my dealer that I will be doing this one myself. (maybe a ratio change). In my opinion, the "production line" style of building these diffs is the problem, with each set of bearings and gears slightly different in manufacture tolerance, so they each need their own amount of attention in setting up, some more than others

Anyone who needs help in this area, we will only be too glad to help. The price of genuine 4.11 and 3.7 gears has fallen dramatically, so PM me if you need help in this area. If you call in, just mention your forums name for a tea/coffee and the cheapest and best diff in melbourne, over 30 years experience.

Best Regards,

Chris
on behalf of Northern Differentials.
Thanks for the reply Chris, was nice meeting you at Heathcote last weekend, thanks for the try of the BMC, must get around to coming over to Cambellfield one of these days.
I think a crown wheel and pinion change would be great 3.73:1 would give it a bit more pull down low, and maybe a mild stall converter ?
With this new Advantage and the up and coming APS/Boss edit we can really start to play with diffs/Converters etc..
Any idea how many more revs at 100 kph it would be doing more than the 3.45:1 ?
 
#11 ·
Bluepower said:
200 at the most.
Welcome to the forums mate, good to have another quality technical reference onboard. Hopefully you like the place and become a regular. Certainly a lot of companies are finding that they can make some good business out of being positive with Ford Forum Members and offering quality services at good pricing.

Anyway look forward to seeing your input on the forums more often!
 
#12 ·
i think the problem is that they all whine as they are a heavy duty diff, if you get a farrarri, porche etc with alot of power i could guarentee that the diffs would whine just a bad, if not more. Mind you i am not sticking up for the companys, just making a point
 
#13 ·
cams290 said:
Why in this day and age with all the technology we have, they cant manufacture quality components ?
Because the quality control in Australian owned motor car companies , and I'm talking of the big two, Ford and Holden, and their suppliers is below average to say the least.


cams290 said:
How many unsuspecting people are driving their vehicles around with noisey diffs etc... and dont realise it ?
The question should be, how many people have complained about driving around with a noisey diff only to be told by Ford (and Holden) that it's within spec or it's not a problem?
 
#14 ·
Bluepower said:
Greetings Cam,

Firstly, congrats on your debut 14.14. Great debut pass in an auto pursuit.

The problem with the diffs is at Dana's end, and in my opinion is a pinion pre-load issue.

People who have tried to do their own diffs over the years have noted that its not as simple as bolting in a set of gears. The pinion depth must be set correctly to ensure a proper acel-decal operating pattern for quietness and long crownwheel and pinion life.

When the pinion is installed, I have noted that the acel/decel pattern Dana adhere to seems to be within spec, however the pinion does not have enough pre-load. The result is a quiet diff until the pinion bearing wears in, and becomes slack, allowing the pinion to move around more freely.

THIS IS THE NOISE YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT.

The fix is to re-set the pinion, but to a higher (closer to crownwheel) location, pre load it to a higher tension. A secondary problem is created here, but we can achieve the right backlash with careful shim selection, providing a more stable envirionment.

Any BA Dana diff we have inspected has had "loose" pinion pre-load. Its a simple fix, and relatively inexpensive one (unless he is driving a phantom ute, no discounts for him lol)

My personal car has travelled 8500 klms, and is on its 3rd diff. I have just informed my dealer that I will be doing this one myself. (maybe a ratio change). In my opinion, the "production line" style of building these diffs is the problem, with each set of bearings and gears slightly different in manufacture tolerance, so they each need their own amount of attention in setting up, some more than others

Anyone who needs help in this area, we will only be too glad to help. The price of genuine 4.11 and 3.7 gears has fallen dramatically, so PM me if you need help in this area. If you call in, just mention your forums name for a tea/coffee and the cheapest and best diff in melbourne, over 30 years experience.

Best Regards,

Chris
on behalf of Northern Differentials.
As a HSV owner that hasn't suffer backlash or shunt and as I am considering the new FPV product I must say this is the best reply I have read anywhere on this issue. My research has led me to note this seems to be a prominent Ford complaint. I note the media seem to be picking up on the different examples out there between cars. It certainly seems to be a lottery with the current BA product, one that worries me greatly. I may have been lucky with my HSVs but the Xr8s I have driven (no GT to test drive) were dreadful.
 
#15 ·
Hi Doc, can you let us know where you take yours to and what it costs and how it goes as when mine starts whining (it already has the NORMAL!!! shunt) I will need to get it done too, as I work away dont get a lot of time in perth and would get it done while at work so need somewhwere reputable to leave it.
Stropp
 
#16 ·
AUGZMK said:
Because the quality control in Australian owned motor car companies , and I'm talking of the big two, Ford and Holden, and their suppliers is below average to say the least.


The question should be, how many people have complained about driving around with a noisey diff only to be told by Ford (and Holden) that it's within spec or it's not a problem?
Oh yeah aint that the truth, and then theres the dreaded diff lash/clunk, Ford need there butt kicked for excepting these diffs with this sort of return rate.
 
G
#18 ·
I've got an F6 with 1200K's on the clock and the dif whines under deceleration already!! WTF!! :AAHHH:

The the car is a 12 out of 10, so the dif issue is frustrating but even if I have to get it fixed I'm more than happy to do so to drive it!!
 
#19 ·
It's these diff issues from the factory and after so called "fixes" that turn customers away, I'm sure both Ford and Dana should be on the case but surely correct tolerance in the QC area can be improved?? I have no doubt they are strong but when you hear a diff thats well and truly whining over the top of the radio at volume 12, it becomes ambarrassing
 
#20 ·
MYF6 said:
I've got an F6 with 1200K's on the clock and the dif whines under deceleration already!! WTF!! :AAHHH:

The the car is a 12 out of 10, so the dif issue is frustrating but even if I have to get it fixed I'm more than happy to do so to drive it!!
:AAHHH: :AAHHH: :AAHHH: :AAHHH: :AAHHH: :AAHHH: Don't tell me that now :3monkeys:
 
G
#21 ·
Hypnodoc: This is going to sound insane but don't worry about the dif. It seems to be a lottery with any Ford at the moment. The car is so good even dif whine does not bother me too much. Sure I'm in that early infatuation stage with the car but they are such a weapon when your up them that the dif whine is not a great concern for me.

Besides its at the dealer for a day and with an FPV you always get a loan car.

Like I said, this may sound insane to some but drive an F6 and get the thing angry then tell me if I'm crazy for thinking like this!
 
#22 ·
MYF6 said:
Hypnodoc: This is going to sound insane but don't worry about the dif. It seems to be a lottery with any Ford at the moment. The car is so good even dif whine does not bother me too much. Sure I'm in that early infatuation stage with the car but they are such a weapon when your up them that the dif whine is not a great concern for me.

Besides its at the dealer for a day and with an FPV you always get a loan car.

Like I said, this may sound insane to some but drive an F6 and get the thing angry then tell me if I'm crazy for thinking like this!
U sure it's not the turbo whine.LOL
 
#25 ·
MYF6 said:
Hypnodoc: This is going to sound insane but don't worry about the dif. It seems to be a lottery with any Ford at the moment. The car is so good even dif whine does not bother me too much. Sure I'm in that early infatuation stage with the car but they are such a weapon when your up them that the dif whine is not a great concern for me.

Besides its at the dealer for a day and with an FPV you always get a loan car.

Like I said, this may sound insane to some but drive an F6 and get the thing angry then tell me if I'm crazy for thinking like this!
Good point. I think there would be an "acceptable" casualty risk with any product. It is inevitible than in any situation, it is allowable for an "itch" to get irritating to a pre-determined level, before wasting energy on scratching it.
 
#26 ·
Alittle off topic but close enough, i have a MKII xr8 with the new 6spd and no noises or whines yet but 1st gear isn't really much use unless your taking off from a dead stop, kinda forces you to slow to walking pace or use 2nd gear for low speed corners or rolling take offs. Which makes it sluggish but once it winds up jeez they get up and go. Would a set of say 4.11's help cure this, seeing as i have an extra gear i would think 4.11's would suit the 6spd well. Oh and Bluepower what would a set of 4.11's set me back fitted, couldn't reccomend anyone to fit them up here in sydney could you.
 
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