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Old 10-10-2004, 23:25   #1 (permalink)
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Ignition Timing 4.0 EL HELP!!!!!

I have EL 4.0 which cannot advance the timing. In order to get car to perform like it used to, the timing has to be advanced to 30 degrees which as you know isnt right. If the timing is set correctly as factory stock, the car drives like a slug and I mean I could run a 50mtr dash quicker than the car on take off!! When timing is advanced, the car performs as what you'd expect from a heathy EL. Head gasket and studs were replaced at 100,000 kms and this was around the time the problem was noticed. Since then the car is now around 230,000 kms and 3 distributors on because Hall-Effect Modules have all failed each around the 30k mark. Are these H/E module problems connected with the poor accelaration?? Mechanically everything checks out ok and all timing marks (cam, harmonic, dizzy etc) line up correctly which only leaves a possible electrical fault left to check.... Where do I start cos no one F***ing knows anything and all they want to do is take my money....... Enough is enough!!! The engine is very healthy and when timing is advanced it doesnt ping or knock as you would expect it should at 30 degrees advanced.... DOES ANYONE KNOW and can you help?????
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Old 10-10-2004, 23:48   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Ignition Timing 4.0 EL

Well what state you live in for a start, so we can try point to a helpful person.
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Old 10-11-2004, 00:10   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Ignition Timing 4.0 EL

Set the timing where the car performs well, ignore the factory setting as the harmonic balancer may have slipped giving you incorrect readings.

If it doesn't ping, and goes good, then it's very likely in the correct position.

Rick.
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Old 10-11-2004, 03:39   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Ignition Timing 4.0 EL

how dose the auto work still good ? i had just 1 stupid wire off under the bonnet and my auto changed from 1st to 4th in 40kms hr after looking and asking every 1 the auto place told me what is was ...... i dont know if it is your problem but just try the auto
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Old 10-11-2004, 07:18   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Ignition Timing 4.0 EL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soxx
Set the timing where the car performs well, ignore the factory setting as the harmonic balancer may have slipped giving you incorrect readings.

If it doesn't ping, and goes good, then it's very likely in the correct position.

Rick.
i think what he is getting at is the ecu isnt advancing the ign timing over the base setting like it should
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Old 10-11-2004, 07:35   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Ignition Timing 4.0 EL

put a timing light on it and see if the timing mark advances when you rev it up a bit. If it does then check that the pully mark is in the correct location as has been mentioned it can shift.
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Old 10-11-2004, 16:20   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Ignition Timing 4.0 EL

Harmonic hasn't moved as I checked position against No1 T.D.C. Cam mark lines up as dizzy also lines up.. Its got me stumped. I live in Melbourne so if you blokes know of anywhere that would have a look at things that would be tops boys. Somebody said to me have a look at pin 36 on ecu and trace wire back to dizz... Done it no probs as is block earth to dizz.
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Old 10-12-2004, 04:41   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Ignition Timing 4.0 EL

When the head was done did they use your head or fit an exchange one?, they could have fitted a different head giving you a lower comp ratio or something. Also, being that it has only happened since the head was done, has the timing chain tensioner been reset properly?, perhaps the chain is slack causing it to be retarded on the cam timing...
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Old 10-12-2004, 05:13   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Ignition Timing 4.0 EL

Just another thought, I once saw a mpi engine that had a cpi inlet gasket fitted, the cpi gasket doesn't have the grooves cut out where the injectors spray the fuel out, this caused the car to idle fine, but it had no go. I have seen one head gasket set with the wrong intake gasket and I nearly fitted it, you don't really take notice cause you normally presume everything is correct in the set..
I might be on the completely wrong track, but I think it sounds mechanical more than anything else...
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Old 10-13-2004, 21:10   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Ignition Timing 4.0 EL

I'm interested in seeing how this develops and what eventuates with your problem scanhi. The reason being that I've got an ED with an EL ECU (wired up to BBM and Knock Sensor) - and when I first installed the EL ECU I set the timing to TDC as specified and got the result you described so also had to advance the timing to make it drivable.

I've got the car running aok by setting the timing to about 15 degrees (haven't tried any more than that) - ie. it goes fine no pinging etc. - but prior to fitting the EL ECU I had fitted the BBM and JMM cam - which with the BBM locked on long path and running off an EDXR6 ECU used to give absolutely neck snapping initial acceleration - very quickly followed by massive pinging - hence I went to an EL ECU to both drive the BBM and have Knock Sensor functionality.

The odd things are that: as I said, the "correct" timing setting for the EL worked so terribly badly; -and altho the car goes fine (great in fact - absolutely hauls arse from about 60kph and easily does 200kph+) it does not have that initial startling off the line punch the ED ECU gave it. If I had that initial punch plus the current 60kph+ performance it'd be a VERY, very quick car indeed.

I've been wondering if there's a difference between ED and EL TFI modules or distributors (were your dizzy or module changed when the head work was done?) - or is there a wire which can become disconnected or broken or some wiring that can be hooked up wrong which messes things up - ie. which might have been done when your car was being worked on and which I've also inadvertantly done with mine.

As I said - I'm VERY interested in what you find.
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