AusXH

Wanna sell the coffee table feature then??? :s4

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PVTXR01

Xyphoid

Hmmmmmmm.... I dunno, I was hoping to buy a new coffee table that would better match the cam !!!!!!! (the cams got pretty painted red stripes on it, and my current coffee table doesnt) :oo1:

Mmmmmmmmm... Decisions Decisions........
You have a P.M.

AU1SIXA

Hi again do u guys recommend i get a xr6 cam for my ebii. If so what year or what would be best suited and if so how much are the xr6 cams and what would i need to change to slap one in.

Steve

Xyphoid

I dont know what the differences there are between EB/ED/EF/EL, so unfortunately I cannot help you there.

Maybe the Crow cam doesnt have such a wild grind for the reason that it seems to be more multi-purpose than anything else.

(I.E. they advertise the thing as being suitable for EA3.9, and EB4.0 - AU4.0) Just thinking about that, that is a pretty broad spectrum of motors that it is supposed to be suitable for.
Add that it supposedly doesnt require any head modifications, or ECU tuning. (Although they do suggest that an exhuast and headers be fitted).

The EF XR6 head has stronger valve springs, supposedly to help get the most out of the XR6's cam grind, so maybe if you are fitting an EF XR6 cam, you may need to upgrade the valve springs, whereas the Crow doesnt seem to require this.

It was recommended that with the dynotec, that the Valve springs are to be upgraded, and lifters are to be replaced, regardless of what condition/head you had. As I said earlier though, It seems fine with the XR6 springs, but I did need to replace the lifters, and add a further shim to each lifter. (2 Shims per lifter).

So I guess after all this rambling, I am not sure what cam may be better for your particular engine, as there are a lot of other factors that can contribute to performance, I.E. are you prepared to change valve springs, fit shims, or are you happy with the figures claimed for the Crow Cam Stage 2 ?

Cheers
Matt

EDFUTURA

Okay, from what I can make out it seems that the Dynotec cam is very probably a regrind - the shimming is a dead giveaway and then fitting new lifters is also simply good practice also - although as long as they're not noisy to begin with, you can probably get away with not changing them.

The Crow cams for I6 used to all be regrinds too but I've heard that you can now get billets - ie. which don't need shims.

If you fit a regrind Crow cam then the situation will be same as with the Dynotec - ie. shims definitely necessary and new lifters a jolly good idea (but not essential as long as they're not noisy already).

The EFXR6 head has - in addition to the harder valve springs - larger exhaust valves (41mm vs 39mm std).

As far as valve springs go, you should find that auto transmission vehicles won't be so critical - the engine is normally not subjected to high rev no-load situations like manuals can be. You'd need to be cautious about reving out in manually selected lower gears tho - ie. flatlining it in first etc.

Point is that you can live with std springs but harder ones are best for lots of fanging. If you have harder springs fitted, bear in mind that Tickford heads also have harder guides to cope - once again you'll manage ok with hard springs and std guides but expect the guides to flog out quicker is all.

When I had either the EDXR6 cam or the Crow cam in my std head I used to thrash the heck out of it and never had any problems.

Down to brass tacks about "which cam" - here is my recommendation:

1. Dynotec - it has higher lift than the Tickford cams but different timing - I reckon it'll go really good in a std head - if Xyphoid is noticing better performance than std EFXR6 cam then it definitely seems to have the goods (the higher lift / shorter duration works) - I might get one myself.

2. EDXR6 - is definitely "sportier" than the Crow cam but not as strong off the line in a std head - takes off from about 2000rpm.

3. Crow - lots of low/midrange torque but falls flat higher up - not good for "flooring" it - great for "cruising" (it's a towing cam) - also yields good fuel economy (as it should because you'll never rev it). Might come into it's own with worked head and adjustable management.

As for prices - I think Xyphoid's figure is about right - ie. budget $450 for the cam itself and installation with extras like shims and lifters on top.

redwards

Look boys, stop messing about and ring Bob Hudson at Crows.

They have a cam for EA-ED and a stage II for EF-EL XR6

I've tried both on my EF.

The stage II is a more agressive grind, thats why I bought an exchange XR6 computer, to give the engine an appropriate mixture/spark curve, and the transmission performance curve is more responsive/aggressive, (eg @ 500rpm higher change points) but it is a vast improvement over the stnd cam and even the XR cam.

The idle is a little lumpy, but there is significant torque/power from idle to redline. (oh, NO SHIMS NEEDED)

If you can afford it, go the XR valve springs but probable not so neccessary.

Just swap the cam, but check the timing chain, guides & tensioner for signs of wear, if the guides have any signs of stress fractures, REPLACE THEM.

Fit Genies or Pacemakers, redback mufflers are reasonably quiet, run cold air (don't fiddle with a pod you just suck in more hot air with no dense oxygen) 11mm leads, XR spec plugs, thats some basics, theres more I don't want to bore you.

EDFUTURA

Hey Redwards, where did you manage to get that exchange XR6 ECU - I've had no luck so far trying to organise getting one - nearest I came to managing it was an XR6 Ute ecu from a wrecker and although it sorted the idle out, the shifting still wasn't quite right and the speed limiter was set at 160kph (170 WOT) - too low! I realise you're talking about an EFXR6 ECU, but with any luck the same place could do me an EDXR6 one.

Calling Crows would be a good idea - all I can say is that I've variously had the "Crow cam for EA-ED" (P.No: 22825) and the EDXR6 cam in my engine each for extended periods - and each time I was running the EDXR6 cam I preferred it.

This stage 2 Cam I don't know about - I assumed that the Crow cam for EA-ED was that stage 2 one but if it's a different thing then the whole equation changes - heck, I might get one of those and try it myself! (I'm now running an EFXR6 head).

Also keep in mind I'm referring to the comparative performance I have seen in a std ED which is the same as a std EBII - not an EF (different manifold setup - ie. slightly better flow down low - much better flow up top).

Also - a billet cam won't need shimming, but a regrind almost certainly will - and when I got my cam they only offered regrinds. Crows told me I shouldn't need shims but the previously QUIET engine (it had 130 000km on it - so not old) rattled like buggery - and Crows were in my opinion not very co-operative in helping me sort out some shims - the damned thing should have come with them. I was advised to "get some 10mm diameter, 1mm thick stainless washers from a hardware store". I did that and it stopped the noise except right at startup - because the washers were covering the oil slots in the front face of the original shims. A concern I brought up when they mentioned using washers (when you first see the shims you notice the slots and it's obvious that they're there to allow oil pressure thru into the body of the lifters). Xyphoid mentions using a second set of OEM shims on top of the original ones - I also asked about that but got no sense ("just use 10mm washers") - when you realise that the original shims are not simply flat then you understand why I wanted to check on just throwing a second set in on top.

AND - when I pulled those "washer shims" out later in order to put the EDXR6 cam back in, I found that the lifters had been wearing grooves into the washers.

Full Monty

Redwards, you arent by any means boring us...

tell us some more, I have replaced my EF's plastic Intake routing with a mandrel bent unit, and done all of the other mods you have mentioned, apart from the headwork..what other little tricks do you know that work well on the IL6?

AusXH

By all means Redwards, bore us pleeeeeaaaase:s6:

Welcome to the boards too Full Monty :s4

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PVTXR01

Xyphoid

Thanks for all your replies guys !!!!!
I have to admit, I am a newbie when it comes to mechanical work !
And everything said here makes perfect sense.
(Its all starting to peice together, why I needed so many shims for the stage 3).

The cam quoted on the Crow Website
http://www.crowcams.com.au/templates...A-AU-OHC.shtml
Is this the stage 2 everyone is talking about ???
EDFUTURA, is this the one you fitted ????

I would have to say a Billet cam sounds the goods, if your a newbie like myself, and dont want to stuff around with shims, and lifters etc !!!!

EDFUTURA and REDWARDS
Thankyou for helping shed some light into this subject !
I think many ppl here are interested in this, but are worried about fitting the wrong cam, or being unhappy with their choice (Myself included).
I have already spent my money, and dont see myself changing the cam again, and I am happy with the performance gains, but this discussion helps out those looking at fitting an aftermarket one, and the choices that they have, and the benefits each one can give !!!!!

REDWARDS - Please do go on with any hints or idea's you can shed some light on, in regards to getting more bangs per buck out of these sixes !!!!

Full Monty - Where did you get the Mandrel bent intake from ???
I have been looking at doing this myself, but the places tha I have been to have pretty much said that they are too busy, Not sure if they can do it (Total Crap), or too lasy to even try !!
P.S. how much did it cost, and can ppl still get them made up / buy them ???

Cheers Guys - and thanx for your input !!!!!
Matt