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Old 01-29-2005, 03:27   #1 (permalink)
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Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

Today I set the timing on my xf, and it was out massively, mainly due to a place who put a new distributor in a while ago, and no nothing about cars, now I set the timing, as no.1 top dead centre etc, etc, and have the line at 8 degrees, everything has been checked, now the car runs a lot, lot smoother, idles properly (before the timing it ran really, really rough) now the problem is there is a massive lack of power, it crawls along, and has no power at all, does anyone know whayt control the timing advance on these efi's? I know the ECU has part, but there is no vacum advance on these, thats what I am guessing is causing this problem, the advance, but what controls it from the distributor? the hall effect?

and by the way the engine overheats too, so for some reason the firing is in retard, even though the engine is defenetly on the right mark.

Please help me!
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Old 01-29-2005, 22:13   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

First things first. Have you established that TDC on the crank pully is in fact TDC on the pistons? Balancers slip. Secondly, have you timed it with the green connector to distributor disconnected and at the correct idle speed?
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Old 01-30-2005, 04:48   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeah right
First things first. Have you established that TDC on the crank pully is in fact TDC on the pistons? Balancers slip. Secondly, have you timed it with the green connector to distributor disconnected and at the correct idle speed?
thanks for the reply yeah right ;-)

the thing does not like to idle at the correct idle speed,

today we had another look, and to be honest the whole thing is fu<ked, we line it 8 degrees with the V mark on the pulley, and it runs like a dog, no power at all, gutless, and secondly there is two white marks, someone previously has obviously put a white mark, and tried to time, it, yet its no where near the v, we have put the timing to both the marks, it runs, but its advanced, rough idle, and its no where near the V mark, however it does have power back. and yeah we did disconnect the green spout, it drops the revs, is this normal?


is it possible someone has put a new pulley in (timing case off etc.) and then broken off the key so they dont have to line it up, and pushed the new pulley in, so the timing mark is incorrect?

i didnt think u had to time the engine to the absoulte correct idle, in the manual, it mentions doing the idle after u have done the timing....
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Old 01-30-2005, 13:32   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

Disconnecting the green spout will drop the revs slightly because the advance drops back to base timing.

Do you know how to verify the TDC mark using an old plug & a metal rod, because it sounds like that's what's happened.

The biggest problem with the EFI motors is the need for them to have airtight crankbases. It pisses me off lol. The slightest air leak will cause it to run like a dog. Even the dipstick has to be a good seal.
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Old 01-30-2005, 14:23   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

It is possible to install the distributer out of phase with the crank and still get it to fit and bolt on. I think it is also possible to rearrange the plug leads so that they all fit and the engine sorta runs. To check it quickly:

- There should be a mark on the distributor casing which correlates to the number 1 cylinder's firing point. Turn the motor until the rotor lines up with this (best as possible).

- Look on the distributor cap, find which plug lead the rotor is pointing to now and trace this lead. If its the number 1 cylinder thats good (cylinder at the front of the motor nearest the fan.) If its another cylinder, someones pulled something on you.

- Finally check that the mark on the main pulley approxamately lines up with TDC on the timing cover (will not be perfect, could be a few degrees either way).

If thats all good the distributor has most likely been installed correctly.

If your timing with a strobe light still fails and your willing try this:

- Mark where your distributor is now so it can be returned to that timing position.

- Loosen the retainer bolt.

- Set the ECU or whatever to set the base timing.

- Start the motor.

- Turn the distributor (left or right) until the engine revs increase.

- Fiddling around with the position, find the spot where the engine idles nice and consistantly, no splutter and especially no racing. (and not too low of course).

- Do up the retainer bolt, and set ECU for normal.

- Give it a gentle test drive and see if it makes a difference.

- If its dodgy, return it to its original position.

Ive used this *freehand* timing on my moke many times, since the timing marks are practically inacessable. It works a treat when you get to know the pitch of the motor well.

Hope this is of some help!
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Old 01-31-2005, 00:16   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

Quote:
Do you know how to verify the TDC mark using an old plug & a metal rod, because it sounds like that's what's happened
How do i do that? I have never heard of this method before? will it give an accurate method of making sure of TDC, without the aid of a timing light? I think I have been screwed here, I think your right, the harmonic balancer has slipped? Im not sure how it is possible, but for some reason I just know that may have happened if it is possible?

81foXDwagon what do you mean set the ECU to the timing, I cant do anything to the ecu. its only basic computer the xf efi ones.
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Old 01-31-2005, 00:39   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

I used an old spark plug & knocked the insulator ceramic out. Get a round bar that fits snugly through the hole in the centre. Screw the empty plug into the plug hole. Turn the engine over until it's over halfway to TDC then push the rod down the hole in the plug until it touches the piston top. Mark that position on the crankpulley. Then turn the motor the opposite direction by hand until the piston touches the rod again. Mark that position on the pulley. Mid way between those 2 marks on the pulley is TDC, so measure the distance with a flexible tape (like a dressmakers one) & mark the true TDC with a paintpen. I found it useful to do it with a cold engine, and hold the rod inside the broken plug with blue tac.
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Old 01-31-2005, 01:06   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

Just take your spanner with you for a drive and keep advancing it till it pings then back it off a bit. Best way to get the most power.
Make sure it's at full operating temp tho.
And you may find it will ping on the hot days, then run premium gold in her.
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Old 01-31-2005, 01:14   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

Has to be pinging pretty badly to be able to hear it before the knock sensor retards the timing to stop it which will zap any advanced ignition timing power increase if there is any, and then some. Better to stick to the specs IMHO.
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Old 01-31-2005, 01:30   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Timing XF EFI, what could the problem be?

Nahhh....you will hear it ping as clear as a bell as long as the radio is down. May only be for a second or so.
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