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Old 03-07-2003, 18:00   #1 (permalink)
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XR6 Engines

Whats the difference between the ED and EF XR6 engines, I always thought that it was really just the intake, if so would it be easy to convert the ED intake to EF/L intake? My ED XR6 has some sort of aftermarket exhaust on it, is there any way for me to identify what it actually is? And because of this exhaust I would like to do the intake as well.
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Old 03-07-2003, 18:34   #2 (permalink)
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The intake can fit straight on, the biggest problem seems to be getting the dual runner operation to work, but do a search its been covered atleast a few times in detail previously.

As for improvements over the ED XR6 engine, slightly better compression, cam and ported head (exhaust only I think).
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Old 03-08-2003, 00:59   #3 (permalink)
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12 counterweight crank. Not sure wether ED got this or the EB 8 counterweight.
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Old 03-08-2003, 02:43   #4 (permalink)
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As far as the head differences go, the EF XR6 head has larger exhaust valves (41mm) - but the rest of the valve gear is interchangeable. The EF head has a wider edge sill - the EF cover uses a silicone seal that sort of clips into the edge of the cover (sort of like an O ring). I really don't think there's anything much different to the ED Tickford head as far as port design goes.

The EF BBM manifold is a straight bolt on to the ED head, but you need to cover a range of details such as:
1. Heater piping changeover.
2. Accelerator cable changeover (including mounting of it on the cover and slight modification of the ED pedal arm for it).
3. Rocker cover changeover.
4. Airbox and ducts changeover.
5. Oil dipstick changeover.
6. Vacuum plumbing changeover (not hard).
7. Wiring modification (minor, not hard).
8. Fuel hoses changeover.
9. Cruise control cable modification.
10. And of course the manifold itself including fuel rail and regulator.

It's probably better to look at fitting an EL BBM setup (including the rocker cover) + EF airbox + BA intake ducts.

Because the EL had dizzy ignition like the ED, it's cover should have the plug lead supports in the right places - which the EF cover doesn't. Also, if you fit the BA ducting then you won't need the support bracket and odd cover bolts that the EF cover has - so again, the EL cover setup is best bet.

As for controlling the BBM, you'll need to get a BBM solenoid (it lives in behind the windscreen washer bottle on the EF and EL - don't know about AU tho) including the connector and few inches of the wires. Good luck getting any parts places or wreckers to understand what you're talking about - perseverance is the key.

You will also then need an ELXR6 ECU - which will be a straight plugin replacement for your current ECU but you'll need to wire up the BBM solenoid and also fit a knock sensor and wire it up as well. I think the best way would actually be to get an EL ECU Loom complete - including the engine bay loom. That way altho you'll be changing over the ED loom to the BBM setup - you can strip out the wires for the BBM solenoid and Knock sensor from the EL loom and fit them to your car (ie. including the molex sockets for the ECU plug).

Hopefully that'll all give you a starting point to begin thinking about it all from :s5
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Old 03-08-2003, 04:35   #5 (permalink)
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Most of what you just said has gone straight over the top, but I'm sure I can work it out if I read your posts again, especially yours EDFutura! I thought that it might be a bit mroe basic than that, do you really think that it is worth it to do something like this, I mean making it a sort of hybrid engine? I just thought it might be feasible and worth it I heard that the EF engine is a huge improvement over the ED in base spec.
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Old 03-08-2003, 05:55   #6 (permalink)
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Nice Post EDFUTURA, One thing i can see being a problem though, the ed block wont have the knock sensor mounting. And another thing Ive heard that the EL PCM 'talks' to the cluster, same with ef, so that may cause some issues.
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Old 03-08-2003, 06:22   #7 (permalink)
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The EL ECU works fine in the ED - I had it in my car for a 4000km round trip I did in August last year and it worked fine except for pinging at anything above about 75% throttle.

The pinging was due to either no knock sensor being fitted or the fact that I had the timing wrong (about 5-6 degrees late) which very probably screwed up the throttle positon vs ignition relationship and contrary to what you'd expect (ie. late timing causing pinging??) caused excessive cylinder pressures and therefore pinging. It's a nice theory anyway :-)

Very significantly, the car performed as well - up to a point - with that limitation as it normally does with the EDXR6 ECU (without BBM switching working) and full throttle range available!! The situation only really became a problem at high speeds - like 160+ where I really needed that extra throttle range.

I've had the EDXR6 ECU back in it since then simply because with not much difference in performance between the two configurations, it's easier not to have to be careful with the throttle. I only discovered my timing error recently so am going to put the ELXR6 ECU back in soon.

As far as knock sensor mounting, I haven't taken a look at the left side of my block in under the manifold yet - but apparently the knock sensor is just a std 10mm thread - so all it needs is a drilled and tapped boss or hole in line with a cylinder. It's been suggested to me that the bolt hole for the water pipe support bracket just to the rear of the water pump could be used (it's pretty much in line with half way between #2 and #3 cylinders) - ie. the knock sensor would simply replace that bolt.

I'm having trouble sourcing parts to fit a knock sensor to mine (joys of living in the arse end of nowhere) - so this weekend I'm actually going to put the ELXR6 ECU back in anyway but with correct timing this time and see how it goes - hopefully I'll be able to leave it in this time and fit the knock sensor for even better performance when I finally track down parts.
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Old 03-08-2003, 06:29   #8 (permalink)
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the K/S is bolted in between the 3rd and 4th piston. Just watch that the sensor doesnt pick up wrong signal using it elsewhere. Im pretty sure the hole has a flat bottom in the 4.0 block i have in the garage - I can post a pic if you want. Also im not sure of this but Id imagine that it would need to be in the samre place to be accurate as there would be different frequencies being picked up from different parts of the motor. Also I have a K/S if you want one
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Old 03-08-2003, 19:50   #9 (permalink)
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NZinAUS - you've got PM :-)

Barefoot_XR6 -
I see where you're comming from. In that respect you should probably consider the EL as the one to compare with because with dizzy ignition and plug in compatibility of ECU it's closer to the ED. The big differences between ED and EF/EL engines are:
1. Crank design - improves smoothness of the EF/EL.
2. Coil Pack vs Dizzy Ignition - IMO no re******t difference/improvement with the EF coilpack setup - and of course the EL went back to a dizzy like the ED.
3. Ignition Management - the knock sensor feedback system in the EF/EL apparently does make noticeable difference (I'll know first hand soon hopefully).
4. BBM system - personally I think that the MPEFI manifold is somewhere between long and short path of the BBM - possibly fair bit closer to constant short path. There is a definite and noticeable improvement in bottom end with the BBM on long path - but top end is not as greatly better (BBM short path) - if you get what I mean?
5. Camshaft - the EF std camshaft is very similar to the EDXR6 cam and the EFXR6 cam is a bit bigger again (presumably ELXR6 cam is pretty similar to EF?).

In short, without actually chucking in an EF Engine (EL would be better because it has dizzy) the things you can do are fit the Broad Band Manifold setup + ELXR6 ECU + Knock Sensor (budget $1000 max - you might get it down a fair bit lower tho depending on how well you buy); and you should also fit an EF or EL XR6 cam - or possibly another type of aftermarket cam (include an adjustable gear to be able to set it up properly - budget $650).

Those cost estimates include labour - to give you an idea what that involves, I did the BBM changeover in about 4.5 hours and that was going slow and being real careful. A cam change - including timing it etc. should only take 1.5 hours.

Performance bottom line - with the BBM setup expect to see and feel about 10rwkw (ie. 2 x aircon off on cool day vs aircon on on hot day difference). And with an EF or EL XR6 cam you should see/feel at least 1/2 to 3/4 of that on top. In short if you manage to do it equal to my cost estimates you'll see 1rwkw/$100 which is about right.
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Old 03-08-2003, 21:20   #10 (permalink)
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also EA-D valve stem diameter is about 2mm larger than EF onwards - 9mm VS 7mm i think, meaning that EA/D valves are not interchangeable with later models, and the later models have a better potential for revving due to the lower valvetrain weight.

if you fit a bigger cam get XR6 valvesprings or stronger aftermarket ones.

just get a EL XR engine and comp/loom from the wreckers (good luck finding one) and bash it in, i think you will have to use the ED engine mounts. save a lot of hassle, and you can also then run EL thermofans off the computer as well, you get the lovely non-destructable serpentine drive belt and the better crankshaft etc as well...

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