351 XY Motor - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
Ford Forum Ford Forum

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
» Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Engine Specific Tech > Cleveland Tech
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Auto Loans Garage Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

FordForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2006, 19:46   #1 (permalink)
Classic not Plastic!
 
Rhett Walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Perth
Age: 29
Posts: 45
Question 351 XY Motor

Hey guys
Apart from having my ZD fairlady I'm also getting my XY rebuilt, sorta looking like a GT but still keeping my own touches to it, custom colour etc.

When it came to the driveline it had to be 51, toploader and 9 inch. For the 51 I wanted something else, something like the original GT's had. I looked around for a while and I sourced a set of 4v open chamber heads from the states. The intake ports are massive! Can fit 3 of my fat fingers in em sideways! Obviously this is going to have to be a Revvy combo but is it wise to put dome pistons to get the comression up to over ten to one?

Basically as far as I have gotten (due to funds) is a virgin 351 block out of an XH LTD that used to light up the tyres in drive with no brakes, the heads and thats about it.

I want to fit a set of 2 inch primary extracors (yeah, will use the strut tower cutting option) and dual 3 inch as I reckon they sound sexy. For a 4V open chamber motor would it still be worth while stroking?

Any info on someone who has used, built, driven or had a 4v motor would be appreciated.

I was thinking something along the lines of a stroker 380+ crank but that may not work with the high revvy potential would it?

Any input, comments, or stories would greatly be appreciated.

If you had a set of 4v heads and a 51 virgin block sitting in your garage, what would you do?
Rhett Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-13-2006, 21:46   #2 (permalink)
351 XE on LPG
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 742
Re: 351 XY Motor

(I like your first name mate. You must be a handsome bloke)

First of all, what do you want this combo to achieve – torque, fast ¼ mile times, or just a show-pony, or reliable daily driver, does it need to be economical, will it be running on gas, etc?

This is just my opinion, but I reckon you chose one of the worse sets of heads out there to start with. A good set of small port alloy CHI’s would deliver the goods and only end up costing just a little more then what you are going to have to do to the old iron 4V’s, (yes they are over 30 years old).

I’d recommend the following heads for a non-stroker . . . http://www.chiheads.com/3V_185CC.php

You WILL need to have a revvy motor to create any form of torque-producing port velocity with those 4V ports, ‘cos torque is going to be difficult to find, (though a 408 stroker will help a lot), but a 408 is not what I’d call a revvy motor either (due to it’s long stroke, etc), unless you chuck some $$$$ at it and buy top quality components. If I read between the lines your budget may not cover this degree of attention/insurance.

Sell the O/C 4V heads on EBay and get yourself a set of 3V 185’s.

You’ll have HEAPS of useful tyre-shredding torque without the expense and hassle associated with stroking.

Good luck buddy.

PS - if it was me, I'd use a strengthened C4 and hi-stall instead of a Toploader.
Rhett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2006, 01:18   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TruBlu351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,398
Re: 351 XY Motor

2 ugly ducklings I say

I priced up the "rebuilding & extensive porting" of iron heads and it worked out the same as new alloy heads with all the fruit, fully setup. Plus 2nd hand 4V's do attract quite a price to start with, inwhich they'd cost more overall.

Do you have the 4V's yet?

How about 393 stroker AND alloy heads! A killer combo.
__________________
XE Falcon
393 Tremec TKO 9"
TruBlu351 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2006, 01:46   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: perth
Posts: 661
Re: 351 XY Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett Walker
Hey guys
Apart from having my ZD fairlady I'm also getting my XY rebuilt, sorta looking like a GT but still keeping my own touches to it, custom colour etc.

When it came to the driveline it had to be 51, toploader and 9 inch. For the 51 I wanted something else, something like the original GT's had. I looked around for a while and I sourced a set of 4v open chamber heads from the states. The intake ports are massive! Can fit 3 of my fat fingers in em sideways! Obviously this is going to have to be a Revvy combo but is it wise to put dome pistons to get the comression up to over ten to one?

Basically as far as I have gotten (due to funds) is a virgin 351 block out of an XH LTD that used to light up the tyres in drive with no brakes, the heads and thats about it.

I want to fit a set of 2 inch primary extracors (yeah, will use the strut tower cutting option) and dual 3 inch as I reckon they sound sexy. For a 4V open chamber motor would it still be worth while stroking?

Any info on someone who has used, built, driven or had a 4v motor would be appreciated.

I was thinking something along the lines of a stroker 380+ crank but that may not work with the high revvy potential would it?

Any input, comments, or stories would greatly be appreciated.

If you had a set of 4v heads and a 51 virgin block sitting in your garage, what would you do?
assuming the fact that you have in your possession 4v opens and a 351 block a stroker would be the best bang for your buck. The two good things that come out of stroking a combo like this are the fact that it will up the comp to a better level ( around 10 to 1) which is great for pump gas and the notion that the 4v ,s cavernous ports respond very well with a few more cubes .Forget about building a rev happy motor. A stroker engine makes more torque and equal hp to a standard stroke motor without the need for stratospheric rpm,s.
russxr67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2006, 00:39   #5 (permalink)
Classic not Plastic!
 
Rhett Walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Perth
Age: 29
Posts: 45
Re: 351 XY Motor

Hey, Rhett is a common name these days so back off!

I can see everyones points...
Ok here are a few more things to throw in the equation.

I've already got the 4v's, they are really quite nice the way they are, they were shipped over from Yank land in bubble wrap and all items (rocker gear etc) with it all bathed in what smells like WD40. The heads look like they have had a recent clean up but nothing exotic. My mechanic reckons they are fine to throw on the way they are. The way I see it, why spend 2000 on porting etc when you don't need to. Although if I had the cash a set of good Alloys would be great.

I like the idea of stroking, and I am a firm believer in manual boxes, had Auto's for too many years.

The car itself WON'T be a show pony, fuel economy is not an issue and I want it to run on BP Ultimate, haven't got optimax yet.

What about a reliable 400hp combo for every day use?
I'm still stuck between two evils.
Rhett Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2006, 01:33   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TruBlu351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,398
Re: 351 XY Motor

Forget Optimax anyway..........BP Ultimate is the go.

OK, well now you actually have the heads in good nick, you're right, why spend $2000 etc. BUt make sure the valve train bits are up to it.

You may want ti investigave fitting port tongues. They narrow down the size of the runners which speed up the airflow which increase torque etc. Few guys have them here.

Do you 4V's have the standard rocker pedestals or are they machined for screw in studs? You'll need these for a reliable valve train using roller rockers.

Are they stock valves? or aftermarket stainless steel? Do they have multi groove valve locks or single groove? Just compress one of the retainers and have a look. Recommend single groove for reliability.....along with good retainers & locks.

Having a lower diff ratio (ie: at least 3.5) will allow your 4V's to rev a lot quicker.

Falcon Coupe has a similar combo to you and he's destroyed at least 2 toploaders already. Not sure if you'll be doing hard drag racing launches on slicks?

Solid cam setup with good manifold, carb and exhaust and you'll get 400hp+ EASILY.
__________________
XE Falcon
393 Tremec TKO 9"
TruBlu351 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2006, 19:36   #7 (permalink)
Classic not Plastic!
 
Rhett Walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Perth
Age: 29
Posts: 45
Re: 351 XY Motor

Haven't had a chance to look closely yet but will when I get a chance. They have aftermarket stainless valves which look mickey mouse.

Can you tell me more about these tongue ports.. I'm curious now. How much etc

The rocker peds are standard, what you reckon the cost for screw in studs worth? If I have to send the heads off I may as well get a bit of other work done too while I'm there I suppose.

How about the bottom end? Are the 4MA's still good enough?

I was thinking around the 3.5 mark for a good reliable drive anywhere ratio. I would love 2 inch extractors and a dual 3 inch, really make it sound mean. Are there any other manual box options out there? Maybe a 5 or 6 speed? Can you get yanky parts and fit em in (importing not an issue just need to know which parts fit what) maybe a late model 5 or 6 speed?

With 3.5 diff and a good strong 4v motor in a manual with street tyres which I assume smoking will not be an issue. What times ya reckon? 14's? Maybe 13's?

Here is an article I think everyone should look at.

http://www.summitracing.com/uti/SummitCoverage.asp?ID={E5697853-5014-4A2F-8B76-C7ACC593EE04}
__________________
Gimme an old classic cruiser any day over a new car. I can jump on my fairlane all day long and not even dent it, just bump a new car 'n' your off to the panel beaters...
Rhett Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2006, 01:33   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TruBlu351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,398
Re: 351 XY Motor

Do a search on "port tongues" using the "Search" function (then advanced search) under that small hidden link on the top right of the page under "forum links and info". Tongues aren't costly.

With a good 4V motor you'll easily be in the 13's. With traction and 4.11's there's no reason why you shouldn't be in the 12's "hy" giddyup.

Your regular T-5 5 speed boxes would be destroyed in no time. Unfortunatley the next step up is quite a jump. Tremec make a gearbox series called TKO's. There really isn't much out there that can compare. The newer models are a little pricey but you could try Mal Wood for some price info.

http://www.malwoodauto.com.au/

4MA - no probs.

Screw in studs cost about $85-100. To machine the pedestals down to fit them varies but you'll be looking at approx $150-200.
__________________
XE Falcon
393 Tremec TKO 9"
TruBlu351 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2006, 19:37   #9 (permalink)
Classic not Plastic!
 
Rhett Walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Perth
Age: 29
Posts: 45
Re: 351 XY Motor

Excellent info, thanks
__________________
Gimme an old classic cruiser any day over a new car. I can jump on my fairlane all day long and not even dent it, just bump a new car 'n' your off to the panel beaters...
Rhett Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Engine Specific Tech > Cleveland Tech



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:09.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.