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Old 06-23-2004, 04:36   #1 (permalink)
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351C horsepower

can any one recommend a good combination for 351c to produce around 600hp ,this is going to be a street/strip engine and no nitrous, my budget is only about $10k. engine is going into an xb falcon sedan, auto.
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Old 06-23-2004, 05:10   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 351C horsepower

I honestly don't think you'll do it unless you have majority of the performance parts already. I think the bugdet depending on parts will set you back anything from $10,000 to $20,000. What will also keep costs down is if you build the engine yourself.

For a start I suggest forgeting 351ci. Go 408ci. Decent set of alloy heads (maybe CHI's?), the right cam etc and 600hp is definately achievable.

There used to be a bloke on www.dragrace.com.au running a stroker with the CHI's making 620hp. I think his user name was 620hpgt?

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Old 06-23-2004, 08:48   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 351C horsepower

I agree with Brenden, it isn't very practical or streetable by the time you're at those power levels. It is certainly very possible to build a 600 HP Cleveland, I have one that makes 608. The compression ratio is about 11.25:1, alloy cylinder heads, 4340 crank and H-beam rods, 393" stroker, flat tops, titanium valves, chrome moly roller rocker arms, 1000 CFM Holley HP series carburetor, tall single plenum inlet, healthy solid roller camshaft, stud girdles, electric water pump drive, no crank-driven accessories, MSD ignition and hard blocking the engine block to about 1" below the water pump inlets and a set of aftermarket center main caps on a factory 4-bolt block.

That is NOT a streetable combination.

You can make 600 HP "streetable" with the following combination:

Dart or Fontana "Clevor" block. 4.155" bore
AFD 4V alloy cylinder heads (titanium valves)
Parker Funnelweb inlet with 1000 CFM HP 4150
Custom solid roller camshaft
Custom billet crankshaft at 4.000" stroke (434 CID total)
4340 H-beam rods
Lightweight valve train
Custom forged pistons

The only problem with this is that the first two items alone will put you over the $10K AU budget...and a couple more of them will put you over a $10K US budget. I spent about $15K US on my 393" Clevo and I bought the block and heads used and at a fairly decent discount during the recent "low" economic period here in the US.

Another thing to consider is what are you going to do with a 600 HP street car? You can't even begin to use 600 HP in a true street car. I argue that you can only use 400 HP in a street car. Any more is a bit crazy, because the power is never used or too easily wasted or the car is far too radical to be a real street car. You can easily build a 600 HP combination that will run well on the street, but it takes a lot more money than what it sounds like you're willing to spend...and really, it isn't even all that easy when you start talking to some of the guys still working through the headaches of stroker engine kits, parts fitment and such...and they have less lofty goals or plan a heavy bit of strip duty to justify the cost of the power where it can be used.

You definitely can build a very nice engine for $10K. If you want bragging rights of 600 HP (just a silly number, really) lie or put up the money! (grin)

It is hard enough to get people to agree on anything even when you have the dyno slip in your hand, so the bragging rights are practically meaningless, at least around here. And, if you encounter twits like ricers who get glazed over at the idea of anything more than 200 HP, a bit of stretching the yarn out won't matter to them anyway. You could tell them it makes 400, 900 or any number in between and what can they do? Take a look at what "exhaust tip" you're using? I'm not really suggesting that you go forth and start yanking people's chains, but it will do you at least as much good as having a 600 HP street car without the added costs!

Even a Dodge Viper makes only about 500 HP. Everyone I've known who has owned one has sold them or converted them to racing because of the ease of acquiring a first-name basis with the local law enforcement officials. That much power in a car, even when it can be used, is too easy to misuse and then becomes a liability to its owner.

For $10K, I'd set my sights on a nice set of AFD 2V alloy heads and a nicely reworked/rebuilt stock rotating assembly with new forged flat tops and a good roller camshaft. You should easily make 500 HP, and that is still a lot more than you need in a street car. By going a bit less camshaft and aiming for about 450, you'll be much better off and much more streetable. You can also consider using a hydraulic roller cam to soften the valve train noise and reduce some maintenance effort required. Remembering that we're basically talking about making heat energy and all of that heat needs to go somewhere. I can tell you from experience that it isn't any real fun riding around in a 600+ HP street car on a warm (or even fairly cold) day because of all of the extra heat coming right back at you. Even a 500 horse engine makes a lot more heat...so much that you'll notice it right away. I still stand behind 400 is the most that you can really use on the street, but with your budget, you can easily make more than that with a well built Cleveland.

:davis:
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Old 06-23-2004, 15:38   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 351C horsepower

It is do-able, but you will need to double your budget.
My old boss made a 351 (un-stroked) produce 647hp which went into a boat (back in 1986).
This engine produced peak power at a low(ish) 7400rpm and had excellent torque from 3000rpm, so it would have been quite streetable.

Whilst it is do-able, realistically you should lower that to 400-500hp and you can do it easily.

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Old 06-23-2004, 16:43   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 351C horsepower

600hp is serious power and is bordering 9's in a falcon - definately not acheivable for $10k. At least double that amount - and then some. Then some more on the drive train to be able to handle it.
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Old 06-23-2004, 17:55   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 351C horsepower

thanks so much for the input guys. i'll give it a go though without stroking the engine. i'll be using a 4bolt block, 4v cast hiport heads, alloy 6in rods, custom hi comp race pistons, 1050cfm dominator, strip dom manifold, crane solid roller cam. what do you think?any other suggestions? my aim in the 1/4 is low 10's
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Old 06-23-2004, 21:50   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 351C horsepower

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtjim
thanks so much for the input guys. i'll give it a go though without stroking the engine. i'll be using a 4bolt block, 4v cast hiport heads, alloy 6in rods, custom hi comp race pistons, 1050cfm dominator, strip dom manifold, crane solid roller cam. what do you think?any other suggestions? my aim in the 1/4 is low 10's
Don't bother with a dominator on the road, an 850 will be enough for 500hp anyway.
Don't use alloy rods either, they won't last long. Get some billet steel H beams made, or just use prepped 302 rods which should be ok if everything else is right.

Rick.
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Old 06-23-2004, 23:10   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 351C horsepower

This should give you an idea as to how far your $10,000 will go.

http://www.pavtek.com.au/ek_eliminator.html
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Old 06-23-2004, 23:49   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 351C horsepower

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtjim
thanks so much for the input guys. i'll give it a go though without stroking the engine. i'll be using a 4bolt block, 4v cast hiport heads, alloy 6in rods, custom hi comp race pistons, 1050cfm dominator, strip dom manifold, crane solid roller cam. what do you think?any other suggestions? my aim in the 1/4 is low 10's
Hi Jim, i am currently building my 351 similar to yours, i am aiming at between 450 and 500 fwhp, i already had many parts, and it has cost me 6k, and is still yet to be fitted and tuned, i had trouble getting the strip dominator to flow, it has low vacum and really needs a cam of 670 thou lift to make it flow, so after 3 cams, i hope it is going to be close, i am using a Holley 850 double pumper, as it seems to be well big enough for a 351, anyway, i will start a thread posting finished results as soon as i can, the performance shop i use take their time, i hope it is not too far off.

BTW i agree with Brenx/Davis, a 408 stroker with alloy heads is the way to go, $$$ permitting of course
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Old 06-24-2004, 16:25   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 351C horsepower

You can buy my engine its a stroker, 4v, solid cam, streetable i have run 10.85@129.19 in a 3600lbs that equates on the moroso speed calculator to have 600+ hp.
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