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Old 05-04-2003, 20:30   #1 (permalink)
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confused Anti Pump Up Lifters & Roller Rockers

I have new anti pump up lifters to go with my hydraulic cam but apparently I will need adjustable roller rockers to be able to set a .0002in gap at the valve tip.

Can anyone recommend a cost effective solution/brand/source of parts for roller rockers.

I presently have non adjustable Yella Terra roller rockers that are adjusted by packing shims on the pedastal to set a .0020in to .0060in preload on the standard type lifters and it would be a lot of fiddling(read nearly impossible) to get these to a .0002in gap at the tappet.

I have done a lot of research on these anti pump up lifters and some manufacturers(Federal Mogul) are recommending them in place of solids for all round performance engines so I don't want to go with solids or hydraulic roller lifters.
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Old 05-05-2003, 02:45   #2 (permalink)
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IMO .. you are going to be spending a fair bit of cash on the setup so spend more and get YT or Comp Cams rollers ( or similar ) along with screw in studs etc. That way if you decide to go solid you don't need to lash out on all that stuff as you have it !
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Old 05-06-2003, 01:48   #3 (permalink)
must stay under 0.25 ppd.
 
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0.0002" gap! Hydraulics dont have gaps. Solids have gaps (just) not that .0002 is a gap anyway. The heat in the pushrod will eliminate that gap if you can even set it!!!

Is this a hydraulic flat tappet cam or a hyd roller cam??

A hyd flat tappet cam (pump up or anti pump up all the same) are set by rolling the motor until the valve to be set is at the heel of the cam lobe.
The pedestals are done up until the there is zero play in the pushrod ie a solid contact.
The bolts/nuts are then wound a further .5 to .75 of a turn.
Shims are used to ensure no more than that preload is applied or the hyd pressure can hold the valve off the seat. Preload is around .030 " (0.75mm)

This is the case with hi bleed rate (anti pump is a misnomer as they pump up just like all others they just bleed off quicker at lower oil pressures (idle)) and normal hyd lifters.
The purpose of them is to reduce overlap at idle to improve vacuum and idle generally.
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Old 05-06-2003, 05:26   #4 (permalink)
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Tonyk,
Thanks for your input. Its a hydraulic flat tappet cam.
I agree with almost everyting you said but there is a difference with an anti pump up lifter.
Go to the Crane Cams U.S. website at www.cranecams.com and you will see the difference and its not just the price. They have specific details on how to adjust the 3 types of hydraulic lifters available. The 0 to 2 thou gap for the anti pump up lifters probably does give some preload after things warm up but basically the anti pump up lifters set correctly will allow higher revs than the std ones.
Can you recommend adjustable roller rockers that don't cost the earth
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Old 05-06-2003, 16:52   #5 (permalink)
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O/k big block but I guess prices be the same...Talk to tech people there...Our $ is getting better...
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Old 05-07-2003, 02:33   #6 (permalink)
must stay under 0.25 ppd.
 
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Good quality roller rockers are expensive. Yella Terra make about 3 or 4 types for Ford V8s if you want a domestic product.
It depends on your springs and cam profile as to which way you go.
I think you are looking at 600-1000 dollars for a set worth trusting personally.

I just pulled my crane hi bleeds out of my bbf. One failed. I replaced them with a set of standard crane hyd's.
I used exactly the same technique for installing as far as preload.

As far as your lifter settings and preload goes. Any street or non race engine should have 20thou to 60thou preload, regardless of lifter if a hydraulic flat tappet style camshaft is used. If you use less you will have excessive operating motion in the lifter and increased wear.
Please reread the PDF files on Cranes site before using 2 thou.
http://64.90.9.168/cranecams/pdf/151g.pdf
http://64.90.9.168/cranecams/pdf/433e.pdf

Tony
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Old 05-07-2003, 02:36   #7 (permalink)
must stay under 0.25 ppd.
 
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PS stamped steel rockers on Fords (pedestal type) are fine for your application IMO.
You need overlength pushrods if you cant get preload and shims if you get too much. Most times its shims as usually the head and valve seats are machined causing the distance between lifter and rocker heel to be reduced.
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Old 05-07-2003, 22:36   #8 (permalink)
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I used an adjustable roller setup on my 351.

Yella Terra make them and are called Street Terra.

I can get them for around $600ish.
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Old 05-07-2003, 23:18   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by TTNOS8
I used an adjustable roller setup on my 351.

Yella Terra make them and are called Street Terra.

I can get them for around $600ish.
Personally I wouldn't trust bolt on rollers on a solid cammed 351. Why you ask? Look for yourself. I've been there.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/whoops.jpg

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/valvespring1.jpg

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/rollerrhs.jpg

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/rollerlhs.jpg

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/rollerbtm.jpg

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/retainer2.jpg

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/retainer1.jpg

http://home.iprimus.com.au/bwill/pushrod.jpg

The springs failed when the pushrods failed. Retainers failed also.
It's a F246 crane cammed engine. Not revving very high at all. Highest I could get without failure running boltons was 5800rpm. The bolt on rollers unbreako's flexed left/right/up/down while under load. In 8 months I broke 8 or so pushrods.

Rollers were Yella Terra bolt ons. Also snapped a few of the unbreako's.

Went screw in studs and Crane stud mount rollers. Havent touched the engine since Aug 2002.

Brenden
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Old 05-07-2003, 23:46   #10 (permalink)
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Ouch!

scary shit.

i'm running a little different setup though.

and going of what you've said at dragrace.com, i'm not revving as much either!:)

had a similar thing happen. not that bad.

hope it dosen't happen. fingers crossed.
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