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Old 12-17-2003, 02:42   #1 (permalink)
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Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

The situation at the moment is this:

My dad has two engines:
1) 302 cleveland pulled from zk fairlane with 4bbl
2) 302 winsor 5.0L HO crate engine from USA never started (1995)

For some wacky reason he IS going to put a V8 in his 1985 volvo 860 turbo.

Which engine do people recommend we use for this project. Ive told him gas would be the best way due to compliance issues (QLD). If we got computer/harness, all accessories, high pressure pumps, cats etc do people think the 5.0 will be legal? The problem here is expense as he also has a 1928 model A hotrod happening (has been for over five years now, and nowhere near complete).

Im thinking use the old cleveland with a mild rebuild and gas. For this what do people recommend when it comes to gas setup/brand, cam and compression ratio for gas ONLY?

I would have to get him a hat for the backseat and bloody volvo driver sticker for the back, lol.

Thanks,
Pete

Last edited by fordmuscle_83; 12-18-2003 at 04:03. Reason: 860 volvo
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Old 12-17-2003, 03:55   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

Geez. How are ya gonna put a V8 in a front wheel drive Volvo?

Are ya sure it's an 850? Cause I didn't think they made those in 1985....... in fact if it is a 1985 I'd say it's a 242 or 244. In which case go the Windsor. It'll fit better and compliance will be easier. Not to mention that there are lots of go faster goodies for Windsors that will be in stock for years to come.

If you are going LPG then the Clevo might be an option.

Vince Harmer (Harmer Automotive 02 6241 3851) in Canberra has a 350 Chev, Turbo350 and a Ford 9 inch in a 262C Volvo Bertone which is the same basic shape as the 240 series but had a 2.7L V6 as standard (same as the 264 engine) instead of the 2.1L 4cyl (the 242 had a 2.3 4cyl.)


I almost bought a 1979 264 Volvo with a 302 Windsor and a C4 in it so I know they fit in the 6 cyl Volvo's. Never seen a 244 with a 302 in it. Doesn't mean it can't be done.

As far as setting up for gas goes, you can't run any more compression than if you were setting it up for PULP. LPG doesn't get any better than 100RON these days and PULP is around 98-99RON. So don't expect any free performance gains out of LPG.

My apologies for my knowledge of all things Volvo. My family has owned quite a few. They'd be good cars if they were better looking, better sounding and a shiteload faster.

Good luck sticking a V8 in one. It's just what they need. Just don't do it to a 242GT. They're collectable these days, (Remember Robbie Franzovic? He won the ATCC in 1985 in one (Actually it was a 240T but they never brought those into Australia. Closest we had was the 242GT and they didn't come stock with the turbo anyway). Didn't that rattle a few chains........the "Swedish Valiant with a hairdryer on it", DJR quote)

Chris.
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Last edited by Chris Brooks; 12-17-2003 at 04:10.
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Old 12-17-2003, 05:11   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

Don't know if anyones heard, but gas is set to go up 12 cpl anyday now.Johnys finally put a tax on it,so it doesn't matter where you live we're all gonna cop it.

Oh, so go efi, f**k the gas....
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Old 12-17-2003, 06:10   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

Dunno where you live but in the ACT gas is only 36cpl - 38cpl so even at 50cpl it's still a hell of a lot cheaper to run on LPG than it is on PULP at $1.05.
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Old 12-17-2003, 17:01   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

Gas is set to cop an 8c excise in 2008, then 12c excise in 2012 (if i recall correctly, its been a few months since I read everything). But there is a large amount of international pressure rising against the government for these excises so hopefully it won't go ahead.

If QLD is anything like Vic then you will have bigger problems getting the ULP fuelled Windsor registered than the LPG fuelled Clevo.

In Vic to get the Windsor going it will need to have all the pollution gear that it left the factory with, including cats, where as the LPG fuelled car can have none at all.

If you decide to go LPG, a mild 302 would run fine with an impco 425 gas carby, if you feel like splurging a gas reasearch single throttle body setup would be fine too, but expect to pay $300-$500 more for the GRA setup.
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Old 12-17-2003, 18:05   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

The '79 264 had an old 302 Windsor running on petrol and it was registerable. Engineers certificate required obviously. The real hassle is getting insurance. Basically you won't unless you can convince Shannon's. None of the big companies like NRMA, AAMI, GIO, Elders, etc will do it. Not even 3rd party property. In terms of omissions, either engine will be OK. You're main problem is fitting the bugger into a 244. The brakes will be up to it, the front suspension might need something a little more serious for the extra weight. The Volvo BW diff won't last long if it's anything better than a stocker V8. I assume you're changing the tranny.
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Old 12-17-2003, 18:16   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

either which way you go your going to require an engineer certificate, but i would go for the windsor due to being easier to pass the EPA test, put all the computer on and everything and then EPA shouldn't be a problem, i wouldn't worry about gas its gonna go up in price and on a normal V8 you only get about 2/3 the distance per litre in comparison to petrol.
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Old 12-17-2003, 19:38   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

I have just converted my 351 Clevo to LPG with a single Impco 425 setup in the last 3 months.

I use about 10- 15% more LPG than I did petrol for the same kms on exactly the same motor with no other mods. Same manifold, heads, everything else.

LPG even with the new tax (which isn't even coming into full effect until 2008!) will still be cheaper to run by a long way than petrol for the same engine.

The tax rise is only 2.5cents per year until 2008 where it is 12.5cpl more than it is now.

If you install the system now it will have paid for itself by the beginning of 2006 if you do the same kind of kms per week as I do which is only 200-250kms. If you do more kms in it then it'll pay for itself quicker.

Every cent you save after that is yours to keep and LPG will still be half the price of PULP even in 2008.

If you are just talking about running costs and are not trying to get every last kW out of the thing then there is no other way to run a V8 as cheap as LPG even with the new tax.

Chris.
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The first, who thinks that because it is old, it is good
And the second, who thinks that because it is new, it is better.
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Old 12-17-2003, 20:36   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Brooks
LPG even with the new tax (which isn't even coming into full effect until 2008!) will still be cheaper to run by a long way than petrol for the same engine.

The tax rise is only 2.5cents per year until 2008 where it is 12.5cpl more than it is now.

If you install the system now it will have paid for itself by the beginning of 2006 if you do the same kind of kms per week as I do which is only 200-250kms. If you do more kms in it then it'll pay for itself quicker.

Every cent you save after that is yours to keep and LPG will still be half the price of PULP even in 2008.

If you are just talking about running costs and are not trying to get every last kW out of the thing then there is no other way to run a V8 as cheap as LPG even with the new tax.

Chris.
The figures you have there are right but the time frame is wrong according to this article: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...5E1702,00.html

My 351 gets slightly less per tank on LPG compared to petrol, I get about 270-280 to a tank... I could get more if I cruised around but when the 351's on the road i'm either full throttle or on the brake!
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Old 12-17-2003, 20:45   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Best economy gas setup or hightech efi?

You're right. It appears that the tax won't even begin until 2008 and will be completely phased in by 2012 so we've got 4 years longer than I said previously before the tax comes in. Even better reason to get gas now.

I've got an 80L usable tank and I get 300kms on the highway and more like 270-280 around town. I've never put more than 65 litres in it at the servo.
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