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Old 10-20-2010, 20:21   #1 (permalink)
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Building a 4v, would like some help please

Hey I'm new here, I'm looking to build out my cleveland 4v. Its a 1970 block that's been completely rebuilt, but not bored out, its been fitted for studs and I have the guide plates installed. I'm looking to make a pretty powerful engine, but its going to be driven on the street for the most part. I would appreciate some insight as to:
what cam, rockers, lifters I should get (I wanna go with a hydraulic roller)
Do headers make a very big difference on the cleveland? (I've heard that the stock manifolds are better than headers unless I get a pretty nice set)
I have about 1200$ to get this guy on the road if that helps, like I said I wanna make this a pretty solid engine.
I'm going to be running a Holley 650 double pumper on top of either an edelbrock torker or a performer intake (I have the torker right now but I've heard I should switch to the performer), Mallory distributor hooked up to an MSD 6a box with a MSD blaster 2 coil.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:28   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Building a 4v, would like some help please

The first thing you might want to do is find an engine builder that will give free info. or
a race car builder that knows those engines. You can't just go throwing parts into it.
You NEED to know what will work properly with what you already have installed in the
motor. What is your defenition of a powerful and solid engine ? Is your 650 and intake
you want to use a perfect match for each other and is it the best match for that engine ? Do wrap around headers, short tube headers,or long tube headers work best ?
What size exhaust pipes ? Should the muffler go in the header dump or at the rear of
the car ? How much preload will you need on the drivers side ? Then after you have that figured out you start on the transmission and diff. You won't get too far with $1200.00
Then there are tires. We have a 351 stroker that turns 10.2 in a 68 mustang. We are into it for approx. $21,000.00 and it's not streetable and not finished. Another $6000.00
and some detuning and it might be streetable. Good luck. They are very good engines
but heavy. What car is it going into ?
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Old 10-22-2010, 17:09   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Building a 4v, would like some help please

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipset View Post
The first thing you might want to do is find an engine builder that will give free info. or
a race car builder that knows those engines. You can't just go throwing parts into it.
You NEED to know what will work properly with what you already have installed in the
motor. What is your defenition of a powerful and solid engine ? Is your 650 and intake
you want to use a perfect match for each other and is it the best match for that engine ? Do wrap around headers, short tube headers,or long tube headers work best ?
What size exhaust pipes ? Should the muffler go in the header dump or at the rear of
the car ? How much preload will you need on the drivers side ? Then after you have that figured out you start on the transmission and diff. You won't get too far with $1200.00
Then there are tires. We have a 351 stroker that turns 10.2 in a 68 mustang. We are into it for approx. $21,000.00 and it's not streetable and not finished. Another $6000.00
and some detuning and it might be streetable. Good luck. They are very good engines
but heavy. What car is it going into ?
Its going into a 71 mach 1, I'll try to get some info from the guy I bought the engine from, he builds engines all the time. The transmission I have is a pretty good C6, and just from looking at specs online they seem to do fine with anything less than 500 horse. I haven't looked too much into the diff, but its a 9 inch and I think it'll do untill I swap it out with something like a 4.10
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:21   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Building a 4v, would like some help please

I would strongly suggest you do NOT put a 410 in there unless you intend to trailer it to and from the track. It's too low for street. That engine will safely do 6700 rpm but
i wouldn't push it any farther than that unless your bottom end has had some serious
up grades. Somewhere around 3.23 will do fine. Even that might be too low for street.
Do you have the heavy duty C6 or the baby back ? Actually if i remember correctly the
heavy duty C6 bell housing will not fit the 351. I could be wrong. Been a long time since
i built a C6. Beautiful car. Hope everything goes OK for you. Just take your time and do
LOTS of reseach. You will be fine. Oh Yah. Some of those old C6's were " green dot "
so make sure of what you have. Good luck
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:59   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Building a 4v, would like some help please

An engine is basically a big air pump... so breathing = horsepower.
Therefore... YES on the headers. The stock manifolds will stifle it.
With the stock torque converter (1400 stall approx), don't go too big a Cam as it won't go anywhere until the car starts moving down the road and gets into it's power band (3,000+ rpm).
If you put in a 3,000 stall converter, then you can go with a bigger lopier cam, and with a 3.55 or 3.73 rear it will launch good and hard.

Of course that introduces a new problem, the stock F70-14 tires will never hook up. Do you have a posi rear end diff ?

It all depends on what you want the car to do, and your budget.
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:59   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Building a 4v, would like some help please

C6 was put behind everything from the 351C-4V up to the 460, so as long as it has the SBF(Vs FE or 429-460) bell pattern you should be OK with it.
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Old 12-03-2010, 17:46   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Building a 4v, would like some help please

Hi,
The information you have received here is all good. Given your budget, might I suggest using the Performer Manifold with the 650 carb and investing a good set of tuned length headers.

Next have a look for a good ignition system like an MSD or a Mallory and then use whatever you have left over to get it tuned so it all works together.

Leave the cam until you can throw some more $$$ at it down the track.
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Old 12-03-2010, 18:03   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Building a 4v, would like some help please

OK....You say you have a rebuilt engine & 1200 to spend now. That's not going far. Like was said maybe headers & an Air-Gap & a few other things. Assuming it a fairly stock rebuild you should just go with what you have. You'd be wasting the money spent on the rebuild to redo what was all ready done & what were talking about, stroker kit & all. OR sell your rebuilt stocker & find a core & do the stroker kit, ect. The alloy heads suck heat(energy) out of a chamber with higher loss rate than iron. When building an alloy head engine you have to up the CR 1 point to compensate for the parasitic loss caused by the alloy(unless this is a 70-71 engine with a C/R of 10.7-11.5 area & could use the relief!). all this plus cam size, all needs to be planned out.
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Old 12-03-2010, 18:06   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Building a 4v, would like some help please

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra269au View Post
Hi,

Next have a look for a good ignition system like an MSD or a Mallory and then use whatever you have left over to get it tuned so it all works together.
With a cam gear change, all the new dizzys for the 351W can be used, new or used.
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