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Old 06-20-2011, 19:42   #1 (permalink)
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Cleveland vs. Clevor

Hi everyone! This is my first post, new to the forum and new to Clevelands as well.

My brother and I are planning on building a pulling truck for a local series. Let me give you a low down on the rules first. 360ci max, 93 octane pump gas only, stock iron heads and block, flat tappet cams only, 4150 flange carbs, no tunnel rams. Our basic pan is this: 4v closed chamber Cleveland heads (11:1 around about is what we'll aim for), large solid cam, around 260 deg at .050" or so, 1000 cfm carb, etc, etc, all the neccesary supporting mods.

My question is this: We are gonna be on a relatively tight budget here, yet I really wanna put those Vortec headed Chevys to shame. I plan on having this setup spinning to near 8,000 rpm. What would be more cost effective, A windsor or cleveland bottom end? Regardless, I plan on having it professionally balanced to help it stay together.

I know the stock Cleveland bottom end is tougher once oiling mods are done, but Windsor aftermarket parts are much cheaper. Would stock prepped Cleveland rods (shot peened, ARP bolts) and crank grenade? Or, would I be better off getting head coolant passage mods, clevor intake, and aftermarket Windsor rotating assembly? Cleveland bottom end parts are quite salty I've noticed.
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:18   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Cleveland vs. Clevor

Most truck builders use the W, as they are more torque oriented. The C is more of a higher RPM go fast on the track engine.
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Old 07-24-2011, 16:53   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Cleveland vs. Clevor

if your cam has enough lift, the Windsor bottom end will cause you to need to change the pistons for the Cleveland valve relief

to live at 8k the Cleveland block should have lifter bore bushings installed to control oil pressure & volume loss especially on the side that the main bearings are fed from, the other side can use a restrictor in the passage under the rear main to the lifter galley
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there is also an external oil line mod that helps, it feeds the rear of the engine the same as the front, connecting from the oil port near the fuel pump to the oil sender port

also think about internal balancing. stock external balance is fine for low rpm stock duty but internal is better for 8k. if you stay with external balance, the balancer on the front needs to fit on the crank TIGHT or the block WILL fail at the 2nd main web

and fill the jackets with grout as high as you dare, word is that any closer than 1-1.5" from the deck will cause cooling problems. Embeco 885 is the same stuff they sell but before the $ mark-up, i paid like $40 for a 50# bag. i've seen blocks filled all the way and water re-routed out the front of the heads to a Tstat adapter like they use on race Clevors, or you can use a greased rubber hose to hold the passages from the water pump into the block open and fill it close to the top, then pull the hose out after it sets

FWIW i think the Windsor may be slightly stronger on the bottom? but not much if any, certainly much more plentiful to replace a block or stock crank though.

for Clevor pistons and intakes look at TMeyer, Inc. Precision Automotive Machining

or look up Icon pistons available through Summit, they use a chevy pin so you'll probably end up with an aftermarket crank & rods that route

going 8k plan on a light or ultralight crank, and titanium intake valves & retainers forget about the stock(junk) or even stainless(too heavy) valves right now!

BTW there's a Crane F-276 on ebay
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Old 07-24-2011, 17:09   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Cleveland vs. Clevor

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman351 View Post
if your cam has enough lift, the Windsor bottom end will cause you to need to change the pistons for the Cleveland valve relief

to live at 8k the Cleveland block should have lifter bore bushings installed to control oil pressure & volume loss especially on the side that the main bearings are fed from, the other side can use a restrictor in the passage under the rear main to the lifter galley
WydendorfMachine.com - Wydendorf Machine
there is also an external oil line mod that helps, it feeds the rear of the engine the same as the front, connecting from the oil port near the fuel pump to the oil sender port

also think about internal balancing. stock external balance is fine for low rpm stock duty but internal is better for 8k. if you stay with external balance, the balancer on the front needs to fit on the crank TIGHT or the block WILL fail at the 2nd main web

and fill the jackets with grout as high as you dare, word is that any closer than 1-1.5" from the deck will cause cooling problems. Embeco 885 is the same stuff they sell but before the $ mark-up, i paid like $40 for a 50# bag. i've seen blocks filled all the way and water re-routed out the front of the heads to a Tstat adapter like they use on race Clevors, or you can use a greased rubber hose to hold the passages from the water pump into the block open and fill it close to the top, then pull the hose out after it sets

FWIW i think the Windsor may be slightly stronger on the bottom? but not much if any, certainly much more plentiful to replace a block or stock crank though.

for Clevor pistons and intakes look at TMeyer, Inc. Precision Automotive Machining

or look up Icon pistons available through Summit, they use a chevy pin so you'll probably end up with an aftermarket crank & rods that route

going 8k plan on a light or ultralight crank, and titanium intake valves & retainers forget about the stock(junk) or even stainless(too heavy) valves right now!

BTW there's a Crane F-276 on ebay
Probably you should have mentioned a larger than 4 Qt pan also!
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Old 07-24-2011, 21:13   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Cleveland vs. Clevor

a main girdle might be part of an 8k recipe too, the caps start dancing around that time. i was looking at the Ford Performance Solutions set up but their website is under construction now, not sure if they're still doing their girdle & windage tray combo?
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