Clevland V Windsor - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars

Liv`iT`Up · 10-01-2002, 02:43

Hey guys (and girls if ur reading this)
I know this probably has been asked perviously, but i'm new to the site so you're gonna have to go easy on me lol

I've always wanted to know the major differences between the two Ford V8 Engines. I was under the impression (dont know why) that the Windsor was actually built in Australia, and the Celvland in the States. But even if that is true, what other mechanical differences do they have?
Does one have bigger heads?
Or a different block, just that sort of information, but anything would be helpful.

Thanks in Advance...

Great White · 10-01-2002, 03:55

O.K Where do I start.
Firstly, welcome to the forums, you'll see that they're the greatest thing since sliced bread.

BLOCK: The Windsor has an 8.2 inch deck height measured from the crank centerline.The Cleveland is 9.2 inches and with heads on it appears a wider V whilst still being 90 degrees.
CRANK: Cleveland cranks have larger main bearing journals and conrod jornals(2.749 v2.49)for the main and 2.311 v 2.200 on the conrods(please dont quote me on the windsor figures, they're pretty close I think?).
CONRODS: The Windsor has 5.155 length conrods(Is that right anyone?) and using 5/16"rod bolts and the cleveland uses 5.78" ones and 3/8 bolts.
HEADS: The cleveland heads are huge square things that are much wider and weigh a ton and the valve arrangement is offset(canted)ie the valves are not directly in line with each other compared to the windsor and using pedestal type individual non adjustable rockers. Cleveland intake and exhaust ports are larger than any windsor(especially the 4V Clevo). Other tell tale differences are the fuel pump of the windsor is located on the drivers side and the clevo on the passenger. Water neck from the radiator top hose goes directly into the block next to the distributor. The windsors one goes directly into the intake manifold. Obviously the Cleveland is much heavier. Hope this helps you. Cheers

xacoupe · 10-01-2002, 04:07

put a windsor next to a cleveland and you will see that the clevo is massive compared to the lil windsor.
In stock form the cleveland (pre ADR 27A) breathed a lot better and was generally a better engine ..
Windsors were never made in aus however, the cleveland was cast in geelong for a short period after the yanks stopped making them Over There.

There is really nothing of note that will interchange between the two..but with a few mods cleveland heads can be put on a windsor ( Origianlly the Boss 302 was 4v heads on a windsor bottom end)

do a google search and look for images to compare the two

julian · 10-01-2002, 13:16

So was the bore and stroke the same if the Cleveland conrods are longer?

Also which Aussie cars had the cleveland and how come the windsor survived longer when it sounds like the bigger/ canted valve Cleveland was a more advanced motor?

TopGhia · 10-01-2002, 14:00

The name "Windsor" comes from Ford's Windsor, Ontario plant.

In answer to your question. Economics and pollution control regulations. Thats why there is a lot of alloy stuff in motors these days, it is not better, it weighs less.

The best windsor motor was the Boss 302 which was in the '69 and '70 Mustangs. Ford America dropped their muscle car programme after the oil crisis in the early 70's. I don't whether any Boss 302's made it to Australia, but I would give my right nut for one. So if you see a '69 or '70 stang with a 302 motor and screw in welch plugs, grab it.

This explains a lot http://xpfalcon.kicks-ass.net/Engine...-Cleveland.htm; even got some pictures.

Great White · 10-01-2002, 21:09

Julian, all blocks have a 4" bore as standard and both 302w and clevo had a 3" stroke. 351 clev has a 3.5" stroke.
Since the 302 clevo was only made in Aust it used long 6" conrods(302 and 351C Blocks are the same). 302C uses 58-60cc Closed chamber heads with 2V valve and port sizes, these are a sought after item in the U.S.
Essentially you could get a set of 4V closed chamber heads and bolt them on to a 302 Clevo and you virtually have a boss 302 with a more favourable Rod/Stroke ratio, minus 4 bolt mains and screw in welsh plugs. This would be highly impractical these days.

TopGhia · 10-01-2002, 22:54

GW, what Aussie cars had the 302c motor installed?

julian · 10-02-2002, 01:27

Excuse my ignorance but I presume 4v heads mean 4 valves per clinder.I never knew these were offered. I presume they never were in an OZ car. What does closed chamber mean?

Futura97 · 10-02-2002, 02:30

4v = 4 Venturi...not sure exactly what it means...

julian · 10-02-2002, 02:40

OK thanks I think that just means 4 barrel carbie