Ford Forums banner

Dart stroker Dynoed Today

9K views 66 replies 22 participants last post by  Spoilt 
#1 ·
Just had my engine on the dyno today its a 351 Dart block CHI headed 393 stroker. It pulled figures of 633.3 hp and 522 Ft-Lbs of torque.
I had to leave a little early so the engine is still on the dyno they are playing with timing and carby's. That figure was with a 950hp holly now they are trying a 1000cfm and then a 1050 dominator so fingers crossed it will pick up a bit more. If not it should still be fun.
 
#4 ·
Hey guys final result was HP 636 Torque 524 so not too shabby. Should easily pull 650+ with racing fuel, anyway now it is destined for my XW and hopefully some good 1/4 mile times.
To answer your question about price its in the vicinity of 20K that includes everything including every last nut and washer being brand spanking new. Although I try not to dwell to much on how much it all cost.
 
#5 ·
Spoilt said:
Hey guys final result was HP 636 Torque 524 so not too shabby. Should easily pull 650+ with racing fuel, anyway now it is destined for my XW and hopefully some good 1/4 mile times.
To answer your question about price its in the vicinity of 20K that includes everything including every last nut and washer being brand spanking new. Although I try not to dwell to much on how much it all cost.
Haha, I can understand.

Awesome numbers, can't wait to hear how it runs down the 1/4!
 
#6 ·
Spoilt said:
Hey guys final result was HP 636 Torque 524 so not too shabby. Should easily pull 650+ with racing fuel, anyway now it is destined for my XW and hopefully some good 1/4 mile times.
Not to be critical or anything, it is unlikely that you'll make better power with racing fuel unless you can also dramatically increase your advance as a result. You will also probably need fatter jetting to make the power unless you're running overly rich now. If you're running fat now to keep it from pinging, racing fuel and lighter jets will likely make more power once the ignition timing is sorted for it. Next time up on the dyno, try running the same fuel that you plan to run in it. If you did, running racing fuel (assuming that means higher octane) will cause it to burn more slowly and probably reduce HP by a notable bit.

Did you dyno with your extractors on it?

How about some more details about the engine? I take it that you're running a Cleveland main size in your Dart block. Are you running a CHI inlet? What cam/compression are you running?

:davis:
 
#7 ·
Yes it is the cleveland main size and I am running the Chi manifold compression is 12.5/1 to be honest i dont now the exact specs on the cam will find out though the builder said it is one of the smallest cams he could find because i wanted it to be streetable as well. with a bigger cam he reckons lots more power and then also if we run it on methanol lots lots more power. It was run on avgas they reckon with that vpw racing stuff it will go more but i dunno. You seem to have one friggen tough motor what you got it in and how does it go???
 
#8 ·
Spoilt said:
Yes it is the cleveland main size and I am running the Chi manifold compression is 12.5/1 to be honest i dont now the exact specs on the cam will find out though the builder said it is one of the smallest cams he could find because i wanted it to be streetable as well. with a bigger cam he reckons lots more power and then also if we run it on methanol lots lots more power. It was run on avgas they reckon with that vpw racing stuff it will go more but i dunno. You seem to have one friggen tough motor what you got it in and how does it go???
Mine is relatively low compression at 11.25:1 (flat tops with 66cc heads). It has a decent amount of camshaft in it, but certainly not a BIG cam by drag racing standards. 274*/274* @.050" and .697" lift (with my 1.7:1 ratio rocker arms). This is an off-the-shelf cam, too. I did a lot of estimating and couldn't find a really that much better camshaft. A few grind profiles I modeled had maybe 5 more HP on the top end, but for $395 compared to (something like) $145 that I paid for this cam, I wasn't about to spend the extra money.

Here are the specs:

Factory '72 4-bolt block filled 1" below WP
Aftermarket main caps on 2, 3, 4 w/ARP studs throughout
4.030" bore SRP 11.28:1 (calculated) flat tops
Scat 3.85" 4340 forged/profiled/lightened crankshaft
6" H-beam rods SBC sizes big/small ends w/floating pins
FMS "A3" aluminum cylinder heads with flow @28"
Lift--int-/-exh
.200 152/100
.300 217/146
.400 266/194
.500 305/217
.600 341/232
.700 357/242
2.19" titanium intake x 1.71" stainless exhaust (+.100" each)
Isky dual coil w/dampner springs, titanium retainers 10* locks
Comp Pro Magnum roller rocker arms w/Jomar stud girdle
JP Performance billet timing gear/chain set
Mechanical roller 274/274 @.050" .709"/.709" lift 105 LCA
Lunati solid roller lifters
Edelbrock aluminum waterpump w/Moroso electric drive
Professional Products SFI rated harmonic damper
Milodon oil pump driveshaft, oil pump pick up and full length wet sump pan.
Mellings HV oil pump w/Moroso oil restrictors.
ARP head studs, oil pan studs, header studs, carb studs, more
MSD billet mechanical advance distributor (advance locked out)
MSD 7AL-3, 10mm wires, Pro Power HVC coil
Motorsports B351 4150-style ported intake manifold
Holley HP 1000 CFM carburetor
Stahl 2.125" primary tube headers (open) 4" collectors
7500 RPM redline

(Note that peak HP and peak TQ were taken from two different pulls)

RPM CBTQ CBHP
4500 443.3 379.8
4600 452.7 396.5
4700 454.8 407.0
4800 464.3 424.3
4900 472.4 440.7
5000 479.0 456.0
5100 490.0 475.8
5200 492.6 487.7
5300 492.0 496.5
5400 491.0 504.8
5500 494.5 517.9
5600 490.8 523.3
5700 490.1 531.9
5800 488.1 539.0
5900 487.5 547.6
6000 487.0 556.4
6100 484.5 562.7
6200 481.0 567.8
6300 482.1 578.3
6400 480.6 585.7
6500 475.9 589.0
6600 472.7 594.0
6700 468.4 597.5
6800 464.2 601.0
6900 458.7 602.6
7000 456.6 608.6
7100 445.6 602.4
7200 442.2 606.2
7300 435.2 604.9
7400 431.7 608.3
7500 421.3 601.6
7600 418.9 606.2

If you're looking to run methanol, then the 12.5:1 compression will be fine. I wouldn't run avgas (assuming it is 100LL) at 12.5:1 at the track, but on the street with say a 6000-6500 RPM pill in the ignition should be fine. A good thing about methanol is that it will make your engine run a lot cooler. However, it is really not a good fuel for a street car.

I prefer to run lower compression than most other drag racers. It makes the "finer" tuning less appreciable. Meaning...you don't have to be exactly on for the weather conditions to run well. Higher compression, especially the guys running 13.5:1 and higher, is "finicky." A bit off and you're burning things up. A bit too rich and you're off your ET.

12.5:1 is great for a hot drag car, IMO. Over that and you're wasting your time playing with the tuning every pass. The problem with running that much compression in a street car is that underhood temperatures get really warm. You need to devise a serious strategy on getting rid of the heat. Coated extractors, air ducted to your inlet, massive radiator and high flow through it. Also, consider cutting louvers into your bonnet to let more heat out from under it.

What's worse, IMO is that the heat from the engine bay gets into the cabin. Of course, making power in an automobile means making more heat. Insulating the cabin is usually something few consider because of the added weight it brings to the package.

You may be able to get a bit more out of it with racing petrol all right. The deal would be to add more timing because of the added octane to start the burn a bit earlier due to the slower burning fuel. However, if the engine isn't rattling with the avgas under full dyno loads, then it is unlikely that a higher octane fuel will do anything but further slow the burning process and result in less power. The one area where it might be a help is in uncontrolled temperature/air flow situations consistent with under-bonnet conditions where the heat is more concentrated and you don't have as consistently good supply of cool, fresh air. You're likely to find that the higher octane fuel takes a bit of heat out at the same timing or lets you run a bit more timing without pinging.

:davis:
 
#9 ·
Hi

NOT BAD FIGURES !!!!!!

My clevo on the dyno made 660hp, 462 torque @ 7500 and best torque was at 5500 with 520ft.

My engine is made up as follows : 4ma crank, 302 rods, Ross racing pistons full floaters, gaples rings, crower roller cam, 661in 635ex duration 262in and 268ex @50, crane roller lifters. chrome molly push rods, nas car valve springs, rollers, manly valves, 2.190-1.73 valves with lash caps, 4v heads, tunner ram, twin 650s with supa sucker spacers, electonic dizzy with msd, 1-7/8 race headers with custom collectors.

Tell you what when I got back home from taking it on its first test I was sitting 3" higher in my seat. Talk about shit my pants it broke traction at 60kph not bad for running on premium unleaded. Certainly gave the neighbors something different to complain about for a week or so. Will take it for another test run in the next couple of days just to keep them winging.


Cheern
CNJ 351 : :AAHHH:
 
#12 ·
xdclevo said:
Is that at the wheels!!! Just kidding. I would hate to be those 302 rods if this 660 hp is real.
No kidding...and through a C6! <grin>

It is probably better not to believe everything you read! 660 HP on the engine from a 351 CID engine using iron heads and factory rods?

That's only 1.88 HP/CI...as John Wayne would say: Not Hardly

The work on the iron heads would far exceed the cost of a better set of alloy heads. 550 HP on factory rods is a definite risk. 660 is insane.

While it may not be impossible, it is certainly improbable. Sounds a lot like a DD engine to me.


:davis:
 
#13 ·
davis said:
No kidding...and through a C6! <grin>

It is probably better not to believe everything you read! 660 HP on the engine from a 351 CID engine using iron heads and factory rods?

That's only 1.88 HP/CI...as John Wayne would say: Not Hardly

The work on the iron heads would far exceed the cost of a better set of alloy heads. 550 HP on factory rods is a definite risk. 660 is insane.

While it may not be impossible, it is certainly improbable. Sounds a lot like a DD engine to me.


:davis:
You mean "Not hardly, pilgrim."
 
#14 ·
Dont believe what you read hey!!!!!

Us Aussies do things differntly over hear.

My FIRST Engine ran 12.5 with dead stock clevo engine with cam and manifold and standard rockers.

My SECOND Engine ran 11.6 with a dead stock bottom end with a solid cam and slight port work.

My NEW Engine ran last outing 9.7 with all in may last email and it is still running. Can you beat that!!!!

P.S

I said 302 rod but I didnt say what kind or what sort nor did I tell you about the custom pro stock port job that I had done...........

I am waiting patiently for your outspoken reply to that.............



CNJ351
Aussie Aussie Aussie
oye oye oye :wnc:
 
#15 ·
cnj351 said:
Dont believe what you read hey!!!!!

Us Aussies do things differntly over hear.

My FIRST Engine ran 12.5 with dead stock clevo engine with cam and manifold and standard rockers.

My SECOND Engine ran 11.6 with a dead stock bottom end with a solid cam and slight port work.

My NEW Engine ran last outing 9.7 with all in may last email and it is still running. Can you beat that!!!!

P.S

I said 302 rod but I didnt say what kind or what sort nor did I tell you about the custom pro stock port job that I had done...........

I am waiting patiently for your outspoken reply to that.............



CNJ351
Aussie Aussie Aussie
oye oye oye :wnc:
If you say 302 rod to the guys on this forum then we take it as a standard 302 clev rod albeit modified.If you mean something else like 302c length rod then that is entirely different.We have no secrets here.Everyone is here to learn.If you have something that works then the purpose is to share your experiences with the other guys as we all do be it good or bad.Cut the crap and fill in the blanks on your engine combo and what car it,s in.Fil us in on your "pro stock" head combo.
 
#16 ·
cnj351 said:
. . . nor did I tell you about the custom pro stock port job that I had done...........QUOTE]

I presume "custom pro stock port job" means you've shaved the exhaust side of the heads off and screwed on alloy hi-port plates. If not, then this is the first 4V iron head setup I've heard of making those kind of numbers and congratulations is warranted.
 
#17 ·
cnj351 said:
Dont believe what you read hey!!!!!

Us Aussies do things differntly over hear.

My FIRST Engine ran 12.5 with dead stock clevo engine with cam and manifold and standard rockers.

My SECOND Engine ran 11.6 with a dead stock bottom end with a solid cam and slight port work.

My NEW Engine ran last outing 9.7 with all in may last email and it is still running. Can you beat that!!!!

P.S

I said 302 rod but I didnt say what kind or what sort nor did I tell you about the custom pro stock port job that I had done...........

I am waiting patiently for your outspoken reply to that.............



CNJ351
Aussie Aussie Aussie
oye oye oye :wnc:
Your d'man, love to hear this sort of enthusiasm and results. Post us some more details would be a great idea.
 
#18 ·
cnj351 said:
Dont believe what you read hey!!!!!

Us Aussies do things differntly over hear.

My FIRST Engine ran 12.5 with dead stock clevo engine with cam and manifold and standard rockers.

My SECOND Engine ran 11.6 with a dead stock bottom end with a solid cam and slight port work.

My NEW Engine ran last outing 9.7 with all in may last email and it is still running. Can you beat that!!!!

P.S

I said 302 rod but I didnt say what kind or what sort nor did I tell you about the custom pro stock port job that I had done...........

I am waiting patiently for your outspoken reply to that.............



CNJ351
Aussie Aussie Aussie
oye oye oye :wnc:

Well over here we don't do things very differently at all. Let's recap:

cnj351 said:
My engine is made up as follows : 4ma crank, 302 rods, Ross racing pistons full floaters, gaples rings, crower roller cam, 661in 635ex duration 262in and 268ex @50, crane roller lifters. chrome molly push rods, nas car valve springs, rollers, manly valves, 2.190-1.73 valves with lash caps, 4v heads, tunner ram, twin 650s with supa sucker spacers, electonic dizzy with msd, 1-7/8 race headers with custom collectors.
4MA crank with "302 rods" ...what are you going to say next? That you put a pair of $1750 (US) custom, 302C-length Carrillo rods into an engine with a factory cast-iron, stock stroke crank? Or better yet, maybe you offset ground the iron crank, used a set of Honda-sized big end rods and actually have a cast iron stroker? I think that we're all fairly sure that you didn't spend more on your rods than the rest of your whole engine and ran out of money for a forged steel crank because of it.

Pro stock port job...using high-port exhaust plates? The cost of doing a set of heads like that is more than a cost of a good set of AFD or CHI alloys...not counting the "port job."

Better is the "nas car" valve springs. I'm wondering what NASCAR valve springs even look like...probably completely different than any other kind of valve spring...you know, square or something rather than round?

Look mate, it isn't my position in life to tell you that you're full of BS, but I'm not the kind of guy to sit around a forum and listen to the spew either. You want to brag about your engine, lets see it. Complete details. Bring it out here and let those of us who actually build them see it in real time.

I don't know if I can "beat that" invisible 9s unknown ride of yours or your 660 HP mystery motor, but here is a pair of older shots of my 608 HP 393 stroker Cleveland and my (soon to be in the 7s) ride.




...I really need to take some updated photos sometime! I've got the EGTs and O2 sensor bungs welded into the extractors and sent them off to be Jet-Hot coated. They look completely different now!


How about this...no posers? If you have a 9 second ride running a stock stroke 351C with 302C rods (what else does 302 rods mean?!), then whip it out. Let's see that bad boy. How about showing off that dyno chart so that we can all see how you made 52 more HP and 8 more TQ with a 351 than my 393? While you're at it, how about sharing your cylinder head flow data so that those of us with iron-headed engines (too) can marvel at your amazing skill at the flow bench. Just so that you have some numbers to beat, I've already posted my flow numbers.

351C with 302 rods, "tunner" ram and a fairly big solid roller cam with pro stock heads and "custom" collectors on small 1-7/8" extractors...doesn't add up to 660 HP in my book. Not that it is impossible, just not very probable.

It isn't as if some of us don't have tunnel rams too...and have learned that they don't work as well as a single 4-barrel for most applications under 5500 RPM.



...of course, you probably have a $2500 (US) Hogan's "sheet metal" inlet to go with your high dollar cast iron crank and factory rods?



Don't get me wrong poser. I have absolutely no problem with engines based on factory parts. I'm building one myself for use in some nice lightweight chassis when I find one. I'm looking for an early Falcon, Cougar or Mustang...I'd take a '63 Galaxy Fastback if I could find one, too! It will be a sweet little street/strip engine using nothing special at all. A factory 4-bolt block, factory 4MA crank ground 10 under on the rods and mains, factory D0AE rods with ARP bolts, Sealed Power forged flat tops at .030" over, mild solid flat tappet camshaft, factory 4V closed chamber iron heads with some mild bowl/chamber work, stainless 5000-series Ferrea valves, Crane dual coil springs with moly (only one "l" in "moly") retainers, Comp Cams Pro Magnum roller rocker arms, Torker inlet, 800 CFM DP, Weiand aluminum waterpump, Rollmaster billet timing set and probably a dozen or so more parts that I'm forgetting to mention at the moment. This little engine should make right at about 450-460 HP...if you can trust Desktop Dyno, which is usually within a few percent given good input.

So, did you get your 660 HP on the "dyno" by selecting the "Canted/Rectangular Pro-Stock Ports/Mods" choice?!


I'm hoping that this reply is "outspoken" enough for you. Like Russ says, put up or shut up. Let's see it. We're "hear" to share cool things about Clevelands and we always want to hear (for reals this time) about low-budget engines making good power. What we don't want to hear is crap spewing forth from some bloke clicking desktop dyno buttons as if he's a real engine builder with pro stock head mods running 9s in a land boat because some combination of bit-twiddling ended up at 660 HP in a 351 CID engine. Please prove "that ain't you." If you've got a good combination, don't hide it.

On your 9.7, what was your '60? What gear/tire are you running...what chassis? My last pass was 8.09 @ 180.92 with a 1.12 60'. I've got a lot more tuning to do with this car before it is anywhere near its best ET. I'm also working on the monitoring electronics for it, so I'm slowed down by that process, too. It has been too hot to race for me, so I'm waiting until next month (or so) to go back out to the track. With some cool air, I'm hoping for a 7. Of course, I won't use 4 exclamation marks to suggest how tough my stuff is, but what do you think? Can I beat that?


:davis:
 
#19 ·
I have to admit I thought your post was saying you were running a standard 302 rod.

I'd hardy call davis outspoken, if you were running a standard rod and factory iron heads then plenty more people would have been raising an eyebrow at your figures.

So, whats been done to the heads? Can you give us some more info on the iron over alloy choice?
 
#21 ·
xcgxl said:
Engine parts are much more affordable when you are in the U.S and have U.S dollars to spend!!!
No way in Bloody Hell! <grin>

$295 block
$67 crank
$25 rods
$265 4V CC heads
$115 SFI balancer
$100 Torker
$170 800 DP
$280 Pro Magnum rocker arms
$180 Jomar stud girdle
$68 rocker studs, guideplates, push rods
$60 Rollmaster billet timing set
$140 Ferrea 5000-series stainless valves
$110 Crane dual coil valve springs, retainers, locks
$75 Milodon oil pan, pick up and Mellings pump (used)
$1920 machine shop work/charges
$165 camshaft
$40 lifters
$50 valve covers
$12 oil pump driveshaft
$50 ARP rod bolts
$....probably a lot more!


:davis:
 
#22 ·
Hi Dave

Sorry it has taken so long to write back but I have been very busy.

About the rods.. My rods are custom built aluminium, and although under stress these rods will stretch a very good friend of mine makes all of Sainy
Engineerings blocks and all kinds of top fuel parts here in Aus.

Re the flow figures 3 sets of heads it took to get it right and a custom sheet metal manifold it took 4 of them all different lengths to get the best result.I made extraordinary power with these manifolds.

Money wasnt the problem it was the time it took to fabricate them. I dont have the Dyno 2000 that you are thinking of I have a custom program that all you pro stock fellows use in the States, which I might add is very hard to get hold of over here in Australia , and it takes 4 - 5 hours to get the results on this program, and you have to put every possible detail into it to get the correct result. My 9.7 was a non race car and the car wasnt fully set up so there is plenty of potential for improvement on that time.The custom port design I have done is top secret. This engine combo has been 4 years in the making and 3 engine destroyed. The 660 was on racing fuel sorry not premium unleaded.


Regards
CNJ351 :sperm: :edit:
 
#23 ·
cnj351 said:
Hi Dave

Sorry it has taken so long to write back but I have been very busy.

About the rods.. My rods are custom built aluminium, and although under stress these rods will stretch a very good friend of mine makes all of Sainy
Engineerings blocks and all kinds of top fuel parts here in Aus.

Re the flow figures 3 sets of heads it took to get it right and a custom sheet metal manifold it took 4 of them all different lengths to get the best result.I made extraordinary power with these manifolds.

Money wasnt the problem it was the time it took to fabricate them. I dont have the Dyno 2000 that you are thinking of I have a custom program that all you pro stock fellows use in the States, which I might add is very hard to get hold of over here in Australia , and it takes 4 - 5 hours to get the results on this program, and you have to put every possible detail into it to get the correct result. My 9.7 was a non race car and the car wasnt fully set up so there is plenty of potential for improvement on that time.The custom port design I have done is top secret. This engine combo has been 4 years in the making and 3 engine destroyed. The 660 was on racing fuel sorry not premium unleaded.


Regards
CNJ351 :sperm: :edit:

HORSESHIT!

What is the name of the program? Why did you use iron heads if you could have made even more power with alloys at a lighter weight? ...and saved big money in porting labor? Who's going to spend 3000+ on custom sheet metal manifolds to top them off with a pair of 650s? At that kind of performance level, why not use Dominators or a pair of Ron's Terminators? ...or EFI?

CNJ351 you are a lying sack of crap...and everyone here knows it. Why would someone spend several thousands (US) to "get it right" to waste it on a "non racecar?"

Go back to being very busy. We don't need the spew around here.

Your "extraordinary power" is more like the ability to spew forth unabashedly with absolutely no regard for the truth.

Custom aluminum rods...on a factory cast iron crank? For less than half of what one sheet metal manifold costs, you could easily have done a nice forged steel crank. For one sheet metal manifold, you could have had a custom billet crankshaft cut to any size that you wanted. You're trying to tell me that you are the kind of guy that has so much money that you can afford to try 4 different sheet metal manifolds and 3 different sets of heads but can't come up with a forged steel crank to run at 660 HP?


Sorry...but the spew stops here! Don't answer back because we know you're lying. If you want to come clean and tell us the real story about your combination, we'd be happy to have you around. But we're not on this forum to listen to benchracers swap wives tales about what parts they're running that they couldn't afford even if they won the lottery. Your entire story smacks of a sh!t storm. My guess is that you've got a 302C in a beater and are a total wannabe. It's fine, if that's what you've got, but don't come around here trying to pass yourself off as the King of Siam.

I modeled up your supposed engine using the off-the-shelf Crower roller cam that you say you've got in it.

Part Number: 15482
ULTRA-ACTION /PERFORMANCE LEVEL 5 -Fast 3/8 to 1/2 mile
super oval track profile. RPM Power Range:4000 to 7500 /Redline:8000 plus.
.636"/.662"
304 °/297 °
297R/106 °
262 °/268 °

...with your kind of money you could easily afford a custom roller cam, alloy heads and a lot better than 1-7/8ths inch extractors!

The math says that it is possible to obtain the numbers you're saying you made, but we all know that you're full of sh!t because nobody who has destroyed 3 engines is going to use a factory cast iron crank in a high dollar engine especially when they can afford to burn through 3 sets of heads and 4 custom sheet metal "tunner" rams. What are you really? A P-Plater trying to play with the big boys? All talk and no walk? Tell us what you've really got and quit trying to pass off a fraud. We don't need it around here.

:davis:
 
#26 ·
Aluminium rods on a 4ma crank? with a stock stroke? Who would bother doing that and why.... surely the cost of the rods would mean you's want to protect your investment by running a decent crank.

No flow figures, no pics, no car details, no reasons why anyone would even need to run 'super sucker' spacers on a custom sheet metal tunnel ram... let alone a pair of 650's, what exactly 'racing fuel' is, nothing.

If you are telling the truth cnj351, its well and truly time to put up or shut up.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top