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Diff Rebuild for Cleveland ;)

6K views 33 replies 11 participants last post by  LTD351V2 
#1 ·
Calling all Melbourne guys,

Can anyone recommend somewhere for me to take my all new 9" centre section for assmebly?

Also....can anyone give me some advice on how to get the discs off the rear axles? Is that a machine shop press off job?

Thanks.
 
#2 ·
TruBlu351 said:
Calling all Melbourne guys,

Can anyone recommend somewhere for me to take my all new 9" centre section for assmebly?

Also....can anyone give me some advice on how to get the discs off the rear axles? Is that a machine shop press off job?

Thanks.
The rear disks are held on by the wheel studs which you can hammer out. Use a pin punch or a press.
 
#5 ·
TruBlu351 said:
OK, thanks.

So when I fit my new Strange axles with screw in studs, can I just slide the discs over the studs like most other cars? ie: the wheel holds the disc in place?

yeah thats how i have mine, i have mark williams and the rotors just sit on the studs and are held buy the wheels nuts... normally there would be a srew to hold the rotor to the axles, but on these type of axles there isn't a hole tapped for the screw so its just up to the wheel nuts, which works fine.
 
#6 ·
xcgxl said:
The rear disks are held on by the wheel studs which you can hammer out. Use a pin punch or a press.
Preferably use a copper hammer to punch the studs out if you go the hammer way. I take it by mounting the rotor on the outside of the flange that you've compensated with the bearing off set to allow the caliper to bolt back up in original position unless you're going to mount EA/EB calipers. If not your overall track will increase obviously by the thickness of the rotors. I have moser on order for my XB and bought long push in studs ( ROMAC ) to keep the rotor in the factory position. ROMAC are the only one's ( According to Rocket ) who make the longer studs to suit the rotor behind the flange as mounted on XB/XC range 9".
 
#7 ·
I am most interested to hear of any decent arrangement for wheel studs to suit Moser billet axles with XC rear disks. I have gone through 3 sets of new studs because the steel in the flange is harder than factory and strips the splines off the studs. Are screw in studs an option? If not, would genuine Ford studs be any harder (steel)?
I would very much like to see photos and part numbers. Sydcomp will gladly supply the axles, but no decent studs.
PS: Mounting (placing) the disks on the outside of the flange is NOT an option.
 
#8 ·
xcgxl said:
I am most interested to hear of any decent arrangement for wheel studs to suit Moser billet axles with XC rear disks. I have gone through 3 sets of new studs because the steel in the flange is harder than factory and strips the splines off the studs. Are screw in studs an option? If not, would genuine Ford studs be any harder (steel)?
I would very much like to see photos and part numbers. Sydcomp will gladly supply the axles, but no decent studs.
PS: Mounting (placing) the disks on the outside of the flange is NOT an option.
You've certainly got my interest. I was not aware of any of that. Were any of your 3 sets the ROMAC studs. Once the axles turn up I will do the exercise and and let you know.
 
#9 ·
I got my MOSER axles and studs from QPAAC. The studs are a tight fit in the axle but then better than having them spin loose. Use a press to fit them no worries.Hammering the studs in was not an option.Bit fiddly holding the discs etc but worked out ok.
I pressed one spare stud in as a test and back out to check since they were tight and they didn't strip the splines off.
 
#10 ·
The new Strange axles I'll be ordering tomorrow have "screw in" rear studs. They just screw into the axle flange. The press in knurled type just drive me "nuts"....pardon the pun ;) I like to be able to have an easy option to change them if they ever get cross threaded/break.

Good call about the rotors mounted on the inside of the flange! What's up with that stoopid design? I forgot all about that setup. As mentioned, that's going to screw with my rear track big time. Does anyone know a way around this setup? I've seen a few aftermarket brake setups....possibly a different mounting bracket for the calliper?

pracy.....Do you have a 9" rear end? Of if you have a Borg Warner, is it the same as the 9" design....disc behind the axle flange? How did you sort it? Are EA etc discs deeper, allowing them to sit over the top of the flange?

I "was" planning on giving all the measurements for the new axles tomorrow, but it may have to wait.

I was planning on upgrading my rear brakes in the future, but that's down on my shopping list. RRS might be able to help me out.

Thanks for the info.
 
#11 ·
Ever considered XD? or maybe XE/F style disks?? they just sit inbetween flange and wheel. Maybe before you order check out what disk setup you would like to run, it would cost little to change to XE/F style.

My personal favourite is to use the big bearing XD style axle ends/bearings and bolt on caliper mounts, but then use the alloy calipers from the XE/F setup, it requires the use of brake pads from XD and XF but you can modify the XF set to work I think, can't remember which way around it is. The std disks and calipers on the XE/F setup are more than capable, and the size of the XD big bearings would take a 35 spline axle I think, much stronger than the std XE/F size bearings, they are puny.

Thats an easy conversion if you have a leaf sprung car, just find the disk rear out of an XD or XE ute or wagon, many of them had the big bearing, in fact I think maybe all XD disk rears have the big bearing?
 
#13 ·
LTD351V2 said:
Ever considered XD? or maybe XE/F style disks?? they just sit inbetween flange and wheel. Maybe before you order check out what disk setup you would like to run, it would cost little to change to XE/F style.

My personal favourite is to use the big bearing XD style axle ends/bearings and bolt on caliper mounts, but then use the alloy calipers from the XE/F setup, it requires the use of brake pads from XD and XF but you can modify the XF set to work I think, can't remember which way around it is. The std disks and calipers on the XE/F setup are more than capable, and the size of the XD big bearings would take a 35 spline axle I think, much stronger than the std XE/F size bearings, they are puny.

Thats an easy conversion if you have a leaf sprung car, just find the disk rear out of an XD or XE ute or wagon, many of them had the big bearing, in fact I think maybe all XD disk rears have the big bearing?
Yeah, that's what I'm after.....brake disc between flange and wheel on my 9". And these XB callipers absolutely SUCK, so I won't be sorry to see them go! The alloy XF callipers sound good. I have a 31 spline detroit locker that I'm fitting as my current LSD is almost dead. I'm getting the axles custom made by Strange in the US, so with all these changes, all my ordering measurements will be out. I'm off to drop the centre section in tomorrow to get built at Supa Trik Engineering, so maybe they'll help me out with exact numbers.

Thanks
 
#14 ·
gregaust said:
I got my MOSER axles and studs from QPAAC. The studs are a tight fit in the axle but then better than having them spin loose. Use a press to fit them no worries.Hammering the studs in was not an option.Bit fiddly holding the discs etc but worked out ok.
I pressed one spare stud in as a test and back out to check since they were tight and they didn't strip the splines off.
Were the studs Moser brand as well? Do you have the part number? I tried to get some studs from Moser in USA and they said I had to go through my local distributer, (where the axles came from) and they don't carry them.
 
#15 ·
LTD351V2 said:
XD or XE ute or wagon, many of them had the big bearing, in fact I think maybe all XD disk rears have the big bearing?
In our listings at work, it is only the 351 and Fairmont Ghias that had the large bearings in the borgies. The 302c and 6cyl apparently have the smaller ones like XY to BA.
 
#16 ·
I have my 9" made to XE style, so the rotor is between the flange and the wheel... I used a mark william end and also their bearings and axles..
I then just cleanerd up a set of alloy brake brakets, which needed to be bored in the center to fit over the axle center...

basically craft used all bw measurements to make a 9" outta mw parts
 
#18 ·
xdclevo said:
In our listings at work, it is only the 351 and Fairmont Ghias that had the large bearings in the borgies. The 302c and 6cyl apparently have the smaller ones like XY to BA.
Yes that would explain it, the Ute was XD or E V8, not sure if a 351 but possibly, the wagon is fairmont 351.

Its funny looking at the small 26? spline BW ends jumping up 4 tapers to the BIG ASS bearing.
 
#19 ·
LTD351V2 said:
Yes that would explain it, the Ute was XD or E V8, not sure if a 351 but possibly, the wagon is fairmont 351.

Its funny looking at the small 26? spline BW ends jumping up 4 tapers to the BIG ASS bearing.
I had the 28 spline borgy in my XD ex police car, and the axels were bigger than my std XB 9 inch axels. I once bent the borgy axel and went to replace with another 25 spline and got a shock when i pulled it out. It was BIG :priest:
 
#20 ·
TruBlu351 said:
Yeah, that's what I'm after.....brake disc between flange and wheel on my 9". And these XB callipers absolutely SUCK, so I won't be sorry to see them go! The alloy XF callipers sound good. I have a 31 spline detroit locker that I'm fitting as my current LSD is almost dead. I'm getting the axles custom made by Strange in the US, so with all these changes, all my ordering measurements will be out. I'm off to drop the centre section in tomorrow to get built at Supa Trik Engineering, so maybe they'll help me out with exact numbers.

Thanks
Yes for sure, whatever you do make sure they are made to work with the XE/F style rear brakes. The disk and axle flange thickness is smaller than the thick XD ones, just be sure to use the correct disks/axles when you measure everything. Its easy to get things messed up. I'd wait until I had the complete XE/F style brake system installed and running on the car with the correct axles, even if they are just std ones, it will save you a lot of headache.

Also if you think you may ever consider a spline upgrade from 31, now is the time to look into that, you could fit the bigger axle ends into your housing and use large bearings, still stick with the 31spline but have room to move in the future, plus get a bigger bearing, the XE/F bearings are puss, if you ever track race the car the larger bearings will be a plus.

Changing to the larger bearing will be a minimal cost considering what you would have spent on the diff all up. If you are worried about the XE/F caliper mount it will still fit, either you work it a bit with the die grinder or worst case it needs some holes drilled, easy done.

The alternative to "new" weld on bearing ends would be to use the large XD ones, then you can use the steel XD caliper mount, its a bit better than the XE/F one.

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, you could already have big bearings I don't know, I'd just be sure you get exactly what you want from it, take time to work it out.

I'd be thinking the XE style vented disks are better than the basic RRS rear kit anyway.

I've just been through all this with a few diff shops, my next project an XE ute, I've discussed these options with many shops all see it as feasable, just depends upon what you want and $$$ always $$$.
 
#22 ·
xdclevo said:
I had the 28 spline borgy in my XD ex police car, and the axels were bigger than my std XB 9 inch axels. I once bent the borgy axel and went to replace with another 25 spline and got a shock when i pulled it out. It was BIG :priest:

LOL yeah I bent the axle in the wagon and went to replace it with the one from the ute, the ute was 28 spline, the wagon only 26 or 25?

I was pissed needed the car so had to get it fixed, it was well bent.
 
#24 ·
OK. I'm glad I went to Supa Trik Engineering. Andrew has a wealth of knowledge and he's also a Moser supplier. So....it's OUT with Strange and in with Moser :hy:

He has EVERY bearing/brake/diff combination available and can order any axle from Moser to suit any custom setup. It's so much better ordering thru someone like that rather than me sending my "best guess" numbers off to VPW etc. He recommended putting different housing ends on my diff, but living 200km away from Melbourne is a pain.....so I'll keep the XB/C 9" disc big bearing.

My options were:

1. Keep it standard....but I hate that setup.
2. Axles to suit XE/F alloy callipers with "rotor over" axle flange setup
3. These nice beauties :hehe: ............good for those circuit sprints



Axles are $690 air freighted from US
Bearings/Wheel studs/HD retainers $150
Wilwood disc/calliper setup are $1000.

As a comparison, if I went option #2, new DBA rotors are $300pr + Reco'd XF alloy callipers and pads for $250 = $550 all up. So for an AWESOME set of rear brakes it will cost me an extra $450.

I have 3 weeks to decide ;)
 
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