FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine... - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
Ford Forum Ford Forum

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
» Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Engine Specific Tech > Cleveland Tech
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Auto Loans Garage Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow

FordForums.com is the premier Ford Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-16-2005, 22:19   #1 (permalink)
'60 F100 Q-Code
 
davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 750
FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

I have a complete, 4-bolt 4V Cleveland engine for sale. I'm not interested in getting top dollar for it, as I'd rather see it go to a good home. I have far too many 4-bolt blocks and sets of 4V heads to spend the time to take this engine apart, and it was recently rebuilt by its previous owner. I bought it as part of a complete vehicle. It is an OC combination with moderately mild/wild hydraulic camshaft and features a 750 VS Holley, factory cast iron 4V inlet. It is basically a mildly rebuilt, mostly factory stock 4V Q-code engine. It has factory 2-piece valves (which should be changed by anyone interested), and factory rods with forged flat tops. Other features are a HV oil pump and Nitrous Oxide Systems' 150 HP plate system. I'm happy to sell the whole lot for any reasonable price.

Obviously shipping will be an issue, but I'm thinking slightly sub-$2000 (US) for the lot of it. It is all part of a currently running combination and runs quite nicely and makes good power in the realm of about 380-400 HP on the engine.



I will likely steal the fan and alternator from it, but everything else is included, (not shown is an open element air cleaner) carb to pan.

The Mallory coil will also be included. The extractors are definitely a negotiable element of this transaction. It has complete, adjustable valve train and roller rocker arms and would probably bring more money if parted out.

:davis:
davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-17-2005, 00:01   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
grey_esp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: W.A.
Posts: 337
Re: FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

Mate if you had posted this about 2 months ago it would be in my shed already, but I already committed to building one. DOAH!
__________________
Pics are post on www.fordespghia.com
grey_esp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2005, 19:11   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
crochunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 828
Re: FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

Yeah but with motor being in america you could buy it alot cheaper here by the time you had to pay for freight to ship it to australia.
crochunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2005, 21:35   #4 (permalink)
351 XE on LPG
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 742
Re: FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

taking the exchange rate into account and including freight, you wouldn't get much change out of AU$3,000
Rhett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2005, 09:09   #5 (permalink)
'60 F100 Q-Code
 
davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 750
Re: FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett
taking the exchange rate into account and including freight, you wouldn't get much change out of AU$3,000
If you add it up, it makes it very well worth the asking price...not that I'm biased! <grin> Seriously, what does the following, good condition parts cost?

$695. 4-bolt block (machined, cam bearings installed, +.030")
$385. Forged flat top pistons w/pins
$395. Comp Cams 292H hydraulic flat tappet cam/lifters/springs/retainers/locks
$150. Machined 4MA crankshaft -.010"/-.010"
$200. 4V OC heads (bare, needing rebuilt price. I've seen 4V heads at $200 each!)
$150. Rings/bearings/gaskets
-----
$1975

...then add:

$130 750 VS Holley
$200 150 N2O system
$250 Roller rocker arms and head machine work for studs/guideplates
$120 FMS alloy valve covers
$75 Alloy water pump
$125 Mallory distributor/coil and plug wires
$25 HV oil pump
-----
$925

...then, assume that the following all cost nothing or where already on your workbench.

Free oil pan
Free cast iron factory 4V inlet (perhaps worth something on eBay?)
Free fuel pump
Every little nut and bolt that takes a lot of work to find and usually costs more from one's pocket.
Free bottom end assembly
Free top end assembly (even if it is recommended to change the valves to one-piece)
Free camshaft break-in
Free pushrods
Free hardened seats/a lot of machine work

The engine has 200mi on it since rebuild. Desktop Dyno 2000 says:

398 HP @ 5500
409 TQ @ 4500

...with a decent single plane inlet like a Torker.

376 HP @ 5500
397 TQ @ 4000-4500

...with the factory inlet.

Not too bad for a pump petrol combination at around $3000 AUD. Add a bit of nitrous to the bottle and you're ready for a good bit more power on demand.

Adding just the two columns of numbers together gives a value of approximately $2900 USD without any of the labor associated with sourcing the parts, shipping them around (individually) and cleaning them up or dragging them around to various shops for work.

What does the currency conversion calculator say now? $3660 AUD in value for about $3000 AUD including shipping?

I will even throw in a good set of used TRW domed pistons (+.030") for OC heads (makes about 12.5:1 compression), just in case someone wants to build-up a drag engine or sell them to help defray the costs.

:davis:
davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2005, 17:07   #6 (permalink)
351 XE on LPG
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 742
Re: FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

"I wouldn't be selling it if I wasn't going overseas"

Good sales pitch Davis. Are you a used car salesman?

Seriously though mate, it does 'sound' like a good deal, but why does it only have 200 miles on it?

Why did the previous owner go through the expense and trouble of building up what sounds like a strong streeter, only to sell it straight away with the vehicle that you purchased? It sounds too good to be true.
Rhett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2005, 20:34   #7 (permalink)
'60 F100 Q-Code
 
davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 750
Re: FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett
"I wouldn't be selling it if I wasn't going overseas"

Good sales pitch Davis. Are you a used car salesman?

Seriously though mate, it does 'sound' like a good deal, but why does it only have 200 miles on it?

Why did the previous owner go through the expense and trouble of building up what sounds like a strong streeter, only to sell it straight away with the vehicle that you purchased? It sounds too good to be true.
I don't know what your "I wouldn't be selling it if I wasn't going overseas" is supposed to mean, but it isn't as if this is a "sales pitch." If nobody wants it complete, I'll strip it and sell the parts.

The guy had the vehicle for 17 years...but never got around to finishing it completely. His "passions" have changed. He has probably 15-20 Harley's in his garage and this vehicle was actually parked in his neighbor's garage and he was paying rent on it. He decided that it was better to sell it and let someone finish it and enjoy it than sit in the garage collecting dust. I drove it and it is very strong and very responsive. The real problem with the vehicle was that it needed minor body work and complete paint, which was not this guy's area of skill. My uncle now has the vehicle and owns a paint and body shop. He's going to do the body work and paint it up for me.

I would keep the engine, but as most here know, I've been building a "Q-Code" engine (with closed chamber rather than open chamber heads) engine. In fact, I'm seriously considering modifying some of my initial parts selections to better accommodate the relatively heavy vehicle.

I'm thinking about doing a 393" stroker with a set of AFD 4Vs and a Funnelweb and solid roller cam...while selling my 4Vcc heads, Torker, Crank, Rods, pistons, etc. However, the truth is that it doesn't really need the extra power. If I just finish the "Q-Code" engine, it will be plenty enough to motivate this vehicle. The current engine makes (by my estimates/DD2K) about 380-400 HP and feels very, very strong in what must be at least a 4000# truck with tall tires (I don't recall exactly, but about 30") and 3.70:1 gears inside the 9" rear end. It should run in the mid 13s as it is without the nitrous.




The "Q-Code" engine that I'm building should make about 450 HP and 450 TQ. That would put it solidly into the high to mid 12s on the engine. Why keep the other engine when I've got this one nearly completed...just gotta finish assembling it?

I can pay for the paint and body work by selling the current engine. Besides, I truly would change the factory 2-piece valves. I'm not confident enough of them to run them. That would cost some money and some effort. Granted, it isn't a lot, but we're talking about money that I've already spent versus money that I don't have to spend if I don't want to spend it. Why should I buy valves when I already have a set of iron heads with brand new stainless steel valves installed in them?

I've seriously thought of keeping it and pulling the heads off to replace the valves and inlet, but I'd have to do it. If I'm going to do anything, why not just finish the higher output engine (with solid cam and higher compression, closed chamber heads)?

I've seriously thought of keeping it and pulling the heads off to replace the valves and inlet...(anyone getting deja vu?)...and selling off all of the parts of the "new" engine. The real reason for not doing it is that I don't want a hydraulic camshaft and I can easily make another 50 or more HP from the new engine.

The for sale engine has OC heads that make about 9.5:1 CR, which is fine for pump petrol. My CC heads make about 10.5:1 CR, with them, I can easily run a 50/50 mix of avgas and PULP to keep it from pinging, and my 112* solid flat tappet cam that will make a lot of dynamic compression ratio, too.

If it sounds too good to be true, consider that I purchased the entire vehicle for $4500 USD...delivered to me! Once painted, even with the current engine, I figure that it will be worth at least $12-15K. That is a nice return on investment regardless of what I do with the engine that is in it.

The principle reason that I'm selling the current engine in favor of the "new" engine is that I can photo-document every aspect of the build-up of the new engine. That will increase the ROI by perhaps as much as 5-7K. That much return will pay for the engine, the vehicle and the paint job leaving the remainder as profit. Considering that I have about 4 hours time invested so far, I'm doing fairly well with the project. If I decide to keep it and drive it, I'll have a nice cruiser either way. In that case, I'd be better off switching to AFD 4V heads or keeping the OC heads so that I can burn PULP without the hassle of mixing avgas, which entails regular trips to the airport for refills of 5-gallon containers. I don't like storing much gasoline around, as it is a hazard waiting to happen.

Don't worry about my used car salemanship. If nobody wants this engine, I'll probably sell the vehicle with it or strip the engine down and sell it as parts/assemblies. A killer paint job, as my uncle can do, will really make it sell well. I just like to have the "coup de grace" in terms of the engine photo-documentation, too.

:davis:
davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2005, 21:44   #8 (permalink)
351 XE on LPG
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 742
Re: FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

Good buy at US$4500, (lucky bugger !! ).

Would make an ideal chariot for a 400, not called a 400C (tongue in cheek), running quench 302 Aussie heads, torquey cam to maintain a very high dynamic C/R, (probably getting near 13:1) with a propane tank in the back. A cheap, economical and very torquey solution compared to the Q-code project, and would deliver a lot more torque at a more streetable RPM.

Don't read anything into my "I wouldn't be selling it if I wasn't going overseas" statement. Just pulling your chain mate.
Rhett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 13:58   #9 (permalink)
Death by Ford
 
CLEVELAND JUNKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: S.A.
Posts: 315
Re: FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

How much does it cost to send a motor from the states to Australia? Is the $2000 US including shipping?
CLEVELAND JUNKY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 17:48   #10 (permalink)
'60 F100 Q-Code
 
davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 750
Re: FS: 4-bolt 4V Cleveland complete engine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CLEVELAND JUNKY
How much does it cost to send a motor from the states to Australia? Is the $2000 US including shipping?
What would I know about shipping an engine to Australia? <grin>

$2000 does not including shipping. So far, the estimate is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett
taking the exchange rate into account and including freight, you wouldn't get much change out of AU$3,000
:davis:
davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars > The Garage - Tech Forums > Engine Specific Tech > Cleveland Tech



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Single voice coil or dual voice coil subs? Whats the difference? blueoval Audio And Security 19 05-05-2005 09:11
New Falcon Engine ??? JamesA Australian Falcons 72 08-08-2004 03:07
Oil on troubled waters - the press expose LS1 V8 problems RAPTOR The Pub 69 05-22-2004 02:10
Product Preview:RX-8 sports car uses Wankel engine to become wild on wheels Stacy94PGT Suspension | Wheels&Tires | Brakes 2 02-06-2003 09:02
Falcon XR8 to Continue Sales Momentum RPO83 Australian Falcons 22 01-24-2003 05:40

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:34.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.