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Old 05-14-2005, 03:41   #1 (permalink)
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Question Grouting - Cleveland Block

Hi Guys, I'm what you would call a virgin when it comes to posts (first timer) although it has been informative and sometimes enlightening reading the different threads over the past months.
I am doing a back to bare metal rebuild on a 72 XAGT for Targa, Circuit Racing & the odd Sunday drive.
I'm thinking of short fill grouting the block to add a bit of rigidity around the bottom of the cylinders but don't really know that much about the pro's & cons.
Any advice or tips on going about this would greatly appreciated!!!

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Old 05-14-2005, 05:58   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Grouting - Cleveland Block

Probably wouldn't hurt. I've got no idea what it'd do to oil temps though. Really depends on what rpm you plan to sit on contantly.
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Old 05-14-2005, 07:16   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Grouting - Cleveland Block

Welcome to the Forum Tones Teo.

How much HP are you planning for your motor?

I'm sure that filling the cooling passages with grout would effect the cooling properties of your motor........especially as this would be a consideration for endurance circuit type racing, as in the Targa Tassy. I'm no expert on that topic but I'd definitely get some professional advice on that issue. Would be interesting to see what you find out.

Unless you're going full out for a drag car (quick runs @ high power) where cooling isn't as much of an issue..........30thou max block & ARP mains stud kit should be OK for block rigidity.

Don't recall the phase 3's running grout @ Bathurst
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Old 05-14-2005, 08:03   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Grouting - Cleveland Block

brenx touched on it earlier. From what iv'e read in the past, as long as you can control the oil temp, you can do it with ease. Just set up a decent engine oil cooler. If you are talking 450hp, it's probably not needed.
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Old 05-14-2005, 14:57   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Grouting - Cleveland Block

Thanks for the input guys.
I was lucky enough to pick up a reproduction 8L Aviad racing sump & an Oil Cooler from a local swap meet a short while ago.
So far the engine spec as follows:

351C block .030
Deburred, Oil return holes enlarged & screw in frost plugs
Milodon 4 bolt main caps, Scat 6" 4130 rods, Probe SRS pistons
Eagle steel crank 3.750

Still on the wish list are - 218 CHI's, Manifold, 830cfm Carb & Solid Roller cam
I am looking for a solid 520+hp @ 6800 rpm max.
I've looked at magazine articles regarding engine grout in circle track, road race cars but haven't found any definitive info on cooling issues etc.

I guess i'll keep looking!!!
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Old 05-14-2005, 17:51   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Grouting - Cleveland Block

Sounds like it will be a nice project.

Grout fill up to the welsh plugs. You won't have cooling issues as less of the bore is exposed to the water so I would think less heat transfer takes place. On the other hand you have less coolant volume so it will get hot quicker. As others have said the oil will run hotter.

Some form of oil restriction will be needed.

Is that eagle crank an SVO style crank? Just watch out that the counterweights arent going to hit the pistons, cos the SVO cranks are made for 9.5 not 9.2 deck height.
My combo is eagle crank(SVO) 3.5 stroke with 6.125 eagle rods venolia pistons(383 stoker style) and the math says that the pistons "just" clear the counterweights. This was told to me by people that sell this stuff. You have more stroke and shorter rod so check that out before you buy.
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Old 05-14-2005, 20:40   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Grouting - Cleveland Block

Quote:
Originally Posted by ltd351
Sounds like it will be a nice project.

Grout fill up to the welsh plugs. You won't have cooling issues as less of the bore is exposed to the water so I would think less heat transfer takes place. On the other hand you have less coolant volume so it will get hot quicker. As others have said the oil will run hotter.

Some form of oil restriction will be needed.

Is that eagle crank an SVO style crank? Just watch out that the counterweights arent going to hit the pistons, cos the SVO cranks are made for 9.5 not 9.2 deck height.
My combo is eagle crank(SVO) 3.5 stroke with 6.125 eagle rods venolia pistons(383 stoker style) and the math says that the pistons "just" clear the counterweights. This was told to me by people that sell this stuff. You have more stroke and shorter rod so check that out before you buy.

Yeah! I'd call it a time consuming project (nearly 3 years already)
The block has a Moroso restrictor kit fitted and the Crank was bought as part of a kit with the Rods & Pistons - but I will check the piston skirt/counterweight clearance.
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Old 05-14-2005, 21:17   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Grouting - Cleveland Block

All good things come to those who wait. ROFL. I HATE WAITING! I'm no good at playing the waiting game. Seems to be common practise in the car trade though.
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Old 05-14-2005, 22:03   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Grouting - Cleveland Block

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenx
All good things come to those who wait. ROFL. I HATE WAITING! I'm no good at playing the waiting game. Seems to be common practise in the car trade though.

Agreed! - waiting sux

Apart from the panel work left to do, I blame you guys for having to wait until I can afford the nice shiny new Heads & Manifold.
I was quite happy to use my 302 2V closed chamber heads & Weiand manifold until I started reading all the threads on the CHI's etc.
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Old 05-14-2005, 22:12   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Grouting - Cleveland Block

Looks like the CHI manifold is good too. I'm testing it on the dyno at the moment. So far I'm making the same power and are 1) running way too rich 12.0 A/F and the carbs too small as manifold vacs too high 1.6hg. As it sits at the moment. It looks like I'll make around 300rwkw or more pipes on. hahaha. Thats through a 2 1/2" twin system with triple flow mufflers None of this twin 3" pipe crap I like legal and relatively quiet.
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