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how much HP

5K views 23 replies 14 participants last post by  CLEVELAND JUNKY 
#1 ·
how much horse power do you guy`s think this engine will have at flywheel. block is 30 thou over,, block decked .............................................................................................4ma crank ground, linished ................................................................................................302 rods close and honed,arp rod bolts, hypertec pistons, molly rings, whole rotating assembly balanced ..............................................................................................cam,, crane hyd h-288-2 powermax,, duration @0.50 226 int,,,230 exh,,grose lift 528 int,,,536 exh,, lobe sep 110 degrees ...............................................................................................heads,,2v closed chamber,, cc`d,, mild ports with a bit off the short turns and around bowls, 2v valves. 10.5:1 comp .................................................................................................. 4v headers ,, factory square bore manifold, 750 cfm, ................................................................................................... im mid way bolting this together for my cousin for his xt sedan, running a fmx what size stall should he run dominator`s recommend a 3000 stall with 3.5:1 rear . how much horse power and any other suggestions for this combo would be great .
 
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#2 ·
A 3000 or 3500rpm stall should work well. Power guestimates? 350-400hp. What might kill it is the manifold. A weiand excellerator would be a better choice. Geez crane recommends a hell of a cruising rpm for that cam. 3200-3600rpm. Thats roughly 4.11 -> 4.5 diff gears.
 
#7 ·
well the converter and gearing is what I would use for this application.

I am guessing there might be some spare HP in converters though?... not sure
I was more talking about intake and carb. I reacon its limited near 350 with this intake/carb combo....

should have said
"maybe closer to 400 with those intake changes"
 
#8 ·
pracy said:
well the converter and gearing is what I would use for this application.

I am guessing there might be some spare HP in converters though?... not sure
I was more talking about intake and carb. I reacon its limited near 350 with this intake/carb combo....

should have said
"maybe closer to 400 with those intake changes"
no worries, hey I'm putting my car on the dyno tomoorow, interesting to see if its gained any with my minor mods and the motor is now run in.
 
#9 ·
There's no spare hp in the convertor strictly speaking. What happens a lot (and you reflect on it with what you're saying) is people set up a car combo and get it wrong; using maybe a convertor with too low stall speed. Change the convertor to the right one and there's an instant X No. of hp available.

The torque convertor does multiply torque; that's their job. But they can't do the impossible.
 
#10 ·
Yep I agree, the factory manifold will choke this motor. Weiand xcelerator for sure. I think you'll be nowhere near 400 ponies.

350 with a good manifold.

What ignition will he run?

It will definitely be a great torquey motor for laying black strips! Some lower gearing and you'd have a car running flat 13's with good traction.
 
#11 ·
problem is he does`nt want to spend anymore money his wife has put her foot down, ive got a weiand exelerator but he`s not getting it, pavtec recomended the cam he told me he done the same set up with ported heads and got 400 hp but i dont think my cousin`s heads would be as good as the ones pavtec were using, 4vxc did you like this cam and did it have a choppy idle.
 
#14 ·
krusty said:
how much horse power do you guy`s think this engine will have at flywheel. block is 30 thou over,, block decked .............................................................................................4ma crank ground, linished ................................................................................................302 rods close and honed,arp rod bolts, hypertec pistons, molly rings, whole rotating assembly balanced ..............................................................................................cam,, crane hyd h-288-2 powermax,, duration @0.50 226 int,,,230 exh,,grose lift 528 int,,,536 exh,, lobe sep 110 degrees ...............................................................................................heads,,2v closed chamber,, cc`d,, mild ports with a bit off the short turns and around bowls, 2v valves. 10.5:1 comp .................................................................................................. 4v headers ,, factory square bore manifold, 750 cfm, ................................................................................................... im mid way bolting this together for my cousin for his xt sedan, running a fmx what size stall should he run dominator`s recommend a 3000 stall with 3.5:1 rear . how much horse power and any other suggestions for this combo would be great .

I've recently just dyno my engine with the following results;

351C bored 30thou
4MA balanced c/w standard 351 rods shot peened etc etc with TRW forgies
2V OC Cast Heads flow 477hp @ 600'
Solid cam duration @ 50 In 254 Ex 258 Lift In 510 Ex 519 Lobe sep 108deg
Holley 800DP Mech secondaries

With 2V Funnelweb peak HP 9.4:1 @ 6000rpm 422hp/380lbs

With 2V Torque Power dual plane peak HP 9.94:1 ( 10:1 ) @ 6000rpm 440hp/400lbs
 
#17 ·
pracy said:
awesome results for the TP i would hav to say... i didn't think it would be by that much either.. I wonder how they match up at around 6,500+rpm on a matched cam...
you would have to think the tp would keep building its lead?
The TP dies at 6000 rpm, ive spoken to the guy who makes them, he freely admits its a street manifold, albiet an excellent one, i tried to talk him into doing a 4V version for the GT guys!
 
#18 ·
351ClevoCorty said:
I've recently just dyno my engine with the following results;

351C bored 30thou
4MA balanced c/w standard 351 rods shot peened etc etc with TRW forgies
2V OC Cast Heads flow 477hp @ 600'
Solid cam duration @ 50 In 254 Ex 258 Lift In 510 Ex 519 Lobe sep 108deg
Holley 800DP Mech secondaries

With 2V Funnelweb peak HP 9.4:1 @ 6000rpm 422hp/380lbs

With 2V Torque Power dual plane peak HP 9.94:1 ( 10:1 ) @ 6000rpm 440hp/400lbs
What min rpm does that cam maker suggest. The lift figures would suggest between 9.5 and 10:1, but the 50 thou duration at to be atleast 10.5 to 11:1 min. You increased the compression, but did you retest the FW when it had 10:1?
 
#19 ·
4Vman said:
The TP dies at 6000 rpm, ive spoken to the guy who makes them, he freely admits its a street manifold, albiet an excellent one, i tried to talk him into doing a 4V version for the GT guys!
Yes exactly the cam fell over @ 6000 both with the funnelweb and TP. The funnelweb we had massive turbulence problems at 1 stage having jets as high as 76/91 but the fuel couldn't be pulled through. When we did a change to a 750HP it was like we had just washed the inside of the manifold with fuel like you would hose your driveway down. The funnelweb needs a bigger lift cam and now that the engine is going into a XB instead of a cortina I was more concentrated on keeping the torque up down low. The cam is a Watson cam which Marty White ( Marty White Race Engines ) here in Brisbane chose for my engine based on those parameters. I'll give you a run down on the best runs as follows;

Funnelweb @ 9.4:1 Jetting 73/89 Magneto

3000 - 325lbs/185hp
4000 - 360lbs/274hp
5000 - 390lbs/371hp
6000 - 370lbs/422hp

Torque Power - 9.4:1 Jetting 75/89 Magneto

3000 - 360lbs/205hp
4000 - 390lbs/297hp
5000 - 410lbs/390hp
6000 - 370lbs/422hp

As you can see down low the dual plane has the power to get the heavier car off the line with both manifolds equal in the top end.

Torque Power - 9.94:1 Jetting 73/86 MSD Pro Billet

3000 - 370lbs/211hp
4000 - 400lbs/304hp
5000 - 415lbs/395hp
6000 - 385lbs/440hp
6200 - 375lbs/442hp

Unfortunately due to the turbulence problems with the Funnelweb we didn't refit it and stayed with the TP. Also all these figures are uncorrected and outside temp of 28deg so was not fun working in a tin shed with a hot engine.
 
#20 ·
351ClevoCorty said:
Yes exactly the cam fell over @ 6000 both with the funnelweb and TP. The funnelweb we had massive turbulence problems at 1 stage having jets as high as 76/91 but the fuel couldn't be pulled through. When we did a change to a 750HP it was like we had just washed the inside of the manifold with fuel like you would hose your driveway down. The funnelweb needs a bigger lift cam and now that the engine is going into a XB instead of a cortina I was more concentrated on keeping the torque up down low. The cam is a Watson cam which Marty White ( Marty White Race Engines ) here in Brisbane chose for my engine based on those parameters. I'll give you a run down on the best runs as follows;

Funnelweb @ 9.4:1 Jetting 73/89 Magneto

3000 - 325lbs/185hp
4000 - 360lbs/274hp
5000 - 390lbs/371hp
6000 - 370lbs/422hp

Torque Power - 9.4:1 Jetting 75/89 Magneto

3000 - 360lbs/205hp
4000 - 390lbs/297hp
5000 - 410lbs/390hp
6000 - 370lbs/422hp

As you can see down low the dual plane has the power to get the heavier car off the line with both manifolds equal in the top end.

Torque Power - 9.94:1 Jetting 73/86 MSD Pro Billet

3000 - 370lbs/211hp
4000 - 400lbs/304hp
5000 - 415lbs/395hp
6000 - 385lbs/440hp
6200 - 375lbs/442hp

Unfortunately due to the turbulence problems with the Funnelweb we didn't refit it and stayed with the TP. Also all these figures are uncorrected and outside temp of 28deg so was not fun working in a tin shed with a hot engine.
351ClevoCorty, you seem to be looking at the spread of torque through the rpm range and not fixating on peak horsepower?
Seems a strange way to go about it :priest:


Good information mate :hy:
I would be interested in what times it ran down the quater, if you are into that.
 
#21 ·
It's the best way to go about it. That's exactly what I did with my current engine. Peak hp was in the back of my mind but my goal was 500ftlbs. My torque curve is 465ftlbs @ 4500 -> 499 @ 5400rpm, pretty much holds above 460ftlbs till 6700rpm where it drops to 454ftlbs then it tapers off to 429ftlbs @ 7200rpm.

I'd contemplate a roller cam at some stage as I'm already board with my current power level. So board I drive around in wet weather without a single worry.
 
#22 ·
brenx said:
It's the best way to go about it. That's exactly what I did with my current engine. Peak hp was in the back of my mind but my goal was 500ftlbs. My torque curve is 465ftlbs @ 4500 -> 499 @ 5400rpm, pretty much holds above 460ftlbs till 6700rpm where it drops to 454ftlbs then it tapers off to 429ftlbs @ 7200rpm.

I'd contemplate a roller cam at some stage as I'm already board with my current power level. So board I drive around in wet weather without a single worry.
Time for some excitment, hook up the gas.
 
#23 ·
Work Horse said:
351ClevoCorty, you seem to be looking at the spread of torque through the rpm range and not fixating on peak horsepower?
Seems a strange way to go about it :priest:


Good information mate :hy:
I would be interested in what times it ran down the quater, if you are into that.
That's because I'm not fixated on saying I have this much HP. IMO talk is cheap but torque is what moves you're car and that's what I've focused on. Look I'm no einstein when it comes to technical side of engines I'm just a dumb sparky building a car for street/strip. The moroso calculator with 3500 stall, 3.9 gears and 26" slicks says this combo is good for mid-high 11s and cross the line at approx 6200rpm. Whether that comes to fruition I don't know but I did crack the shits last week and was ready to sell everything but I'm over myself now and will be putting the engine in the car over xmas/new year. The engine will comfortably take a 150 kit all day which equates to around a net gain of around 125hp.

To answer your question yes I'm right into 400m action as the long term aim is for our daughter ( Presently 16 turning 17 in July ) to race the car. Not straight away obviously, She can race a stocker and then move over to the XB.
 
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