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Old 04-30-2004, 02:35   #1 (permalink)
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New engine build comments requested.


APPLICATION


Some street work and some club level circuit racing - ie Winton, Phillip Island. Aiming for 430 to 450 hp and 440 to 460 ftlb. Desired shift point shall be between between 6000 & 6500 rpm.

I still desire some streetability and fuel economy - ie 25 l/100km. I believe this combination should have a similar low rev torque curve to the engine that the heads were pulled from. Details of this motor are shown in italics in following text.

Have considered a stroker for extra drivability but the extra expense of around $2000 would yield better results if spent on a roll cage or race seats.

There is a similar engine build on: http://www.fomoco.com.au/Funnelweb.htm

Gearbox is a wide ratio toploader.
Diff is a 3.5:1 ratio
XB falcon, so weighs in around 1550 kg.

SHORT

Australian crank, standard journals -to machine
ARP main studs
302 Cleveland Rods - polish & shotpeen, resize, ARP bolts
Hypatec Hypereutectic pistons - 3 CC valve relief
Bore and torqueplate hone- 20 thou over
Zero deck height
Moly rings
Factory Flywheel
Romac Balancer
Sonic check

INDUCTION

302 cleveland heads - 64.5 chamber volume, 170 cc port volume, Stainless one piece Manley valves - ported (the motor with these heads was pulled from dynoed at 235 rwkw : a hydraulic SIG ERSON 235/235 0.519/0.519 lift 108 lca cam, performer manifold and 750DP, 10.33:1, tri y's )

Solid camshaft as per Engine Masters Challenge - 239/242 0.623"/0.623 108 LCA. Will probably ion nitride. Believe this is a better alternative than a Crane F246

Valve springs to suit cam
Yella Terra Bolt on adjustables
Funnelweb 2V manifold
Carburettor - 750 DP or 830 Annular Discharge (depends on vacuum at WOT)
Felpro O-ring head gasket - 0.041", 4.1" bore.
Calculated compression 10.5:1
Shell optimax - (ron + mon)/2 = 93
Tri y's.

LUBRICATION
Mellings standard volume oil pump.
Restrictors to all cam bearings but rear.
Plug in front mains cam bearing supply - it only goes to the main gallery.
Restrictor in supply to front mains to reduce to the same size as the rest
Restrictor in rear mains to return lifter supply.
Shell Helix plus -synthetic blend.
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Old 04-30-2004, 18:36   #2 (permalink)
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Re: New engine build comments requested.

The only two things:

I woudn't go a solid camshaft if you are going bolt on adjustable roller rockers. I also wouldn't use optimax. It was great a coupe of years ago but it seems to really carbon up plugs now. I've seen this on two engines that had no issues with optimax prior. 1 engine being mine and my mates (XBWGN) engine.

Mobil Synergy is a better more stable option.

I used to have bolt on adjustable rollers. I had many a bent pushrod/broken valvesprings/broken retainers. All within a 3mth period. I have pics of most of the damage.

A cracked the shits and had the heads machined for screw in studs and used stud mount adjustable rollers. It's been about 2 years and 9 moths since and I've never had a pushrod/spring issue since.

I was running Yella Terra's at the time. I swapped the Crane when I went stud mount.

I personally don't believe solid cams and bolt on adjustable rollers are a good mix. They are fine with hyd cams just not solids. The 5/16th unbreako bolts flex too much causing failures.

Thats the type of stuff you don't need when your doing track work.

Brenden
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Old 05-01-2004, 01:38   #3 (permalink)
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Re: New engine build comments requested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenx
The only two things:



I was running Yella Terra's at the time. I swapped the Crane when I went stud mount.

I personally don't believe solid cams and bolt on adjustable rollers are a good mix. They are fine with hyd cams just not solids. The 5/16th unbreako bolts flex too much causing failures.

Brenden
What cam where you running when you had all the problems?

I had originally ordered Platinum Rockers but Yella Terra couldn't supply them in time, so I ordered some bolt on adjustables to replace my brothers set which I would use instead. As things have developed I now have to build a new engine and could have waited.
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Old 05-01-2004, 18:54   #4 (permalink)
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Re: New engine build comments requested.

A blue racer solid (I am still running it). It's basically a cheaper version of the Crane F246.

Brenden
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Old 05-01-2004, 19:13   #5 (permalink)
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Re: New engine build comments requested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brenx
A blue racer solid (I am still running it). It's basically a cheaper version of the Crane F246.

Brenden
Brenden, are you running the cam strait up, or advanced? I,m sticking in a crane F246 this arvo, and am wondering the best option..
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Old 05-01-2004, 19:46   #6 (permalink)
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Re: New engine build comments requested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xdclevo
Brenden, are you running the cam strait up, or advanced? I,m sticking in a crane F246 this arvo, and am wondering the best option..
Mines installed 2 deg advanced.

The main variable is where it dials in? Slight advance/retard retard will ove the power band up or down. What also affects where the power is heads. So for example the F246 cam power range of 3800-7000rpm may really be 3500-6300rpm.

Mine topped out with the old heads @ 6300rpm. Yet another persons F246 I know topped out at 5400rpm. The only differences we he ran 4V heads and I ran 2V's.

If all looks right? I'd go dot to dot.

Brenden
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Old 05-01-2004, 20:37   #7 (permalink)
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Re: New engine build comments requested.

You recomend me to go in dot to dot, but yours is 2 deg advanced. Why isnt yours do to dot. I know exactly the effects on advancing and reatarding the cam timing, but different CAMS will react differenlty to advancing, so i was after some info from people running this size cam or very similar.(edit: i am talking about if the cam is correct on its opening and closing events when lined up at dot to dot)
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Old 05-01-2004, 20:50   #8 (permalink)
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Re: New engine build comments requested.

Mine didn't dial in correctly. It had to be dialed in at 2 deg to match the specifications on the cam card.

I was awhile ago now but from memory it was the 3rd or 4th cam installed as some of the prior same part numbered cams dialed in as much as 16 deg advanced to line up with specifications.

Your "edits" correct. You have to be within specification of the cam card.

Brenden
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Old 05-01-2004, 20:51   #9 (permalink)
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Re: New engine build comments requested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xdclevo
You recomend me to go in dot to dot, but yours is 2 deg advanced. Why isnt yours do to dot. I know exactly the effects on advancing and reatarding the cam timing, but different CAMS will react differenlty to advancing, so i was after some info from people running this size cam or very similar.(edit: i am talking about if the cam is correct on its opening and closing events when lined up at dot to dot)
Running the cam slightly advanced can allow for future timing chain stretch.
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Old 05-01-2004, 21:00   #10 (permalink)
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Re: New engine build comments requested.

when installing my cam dot to dot, it turned out 1 deg advanced. Also for that power and rev range,couldnt u use a crane 238 size cam? im shooting for 400-430hp when mines running. The cam ive got is a crow solid a wee bit smaller than the 238.
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